* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.
          [00:00:01]
          UM, 
          [Finance Community Workshop Meeting on August 28, 2023.]
THIS WILL BE RECORDED ONLINE, AVAILABLE TOMORROW, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE ERIC FROM R C S, WHO'S GOING TO BE LEADING THE POWERPOINT PRESENTATION ON THE COST OF SERVICES STUDY. 
          JUST TO GIVE A LITTLE BACKGROUND, UM, THIS WAS IDENTIFIED IN THE CITY'S LONG RANGE FINANCIAL RECOVERY PLAN AS A RESULT OF THE AUDIT WE HAD IN 2020, WHICH IDENTIFIED THAT WE NEEDED TO ASSESS AND UPDATE OUR FEES. 
          AND SO WE DID AN R F P AND SELECTED OUR CSS AS OUR CONSULTANT. 
          AND THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS TO DEVELOP THIS STUDY. 
          AND I WILL TURN IT OVER TO ERIC NOW. 
          UH, NO, BECAUSE THERE'S 225 OF THEM. 
          I, I DO BELIEVE, UM, WE, WE CAN PULL UP A COPY OF THE REPORT AS WE'RE KIND OF GOING THROUGH. 
          UM, AND SO I DO WANNA KEEP THIS INFORMAL. 
          YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST US HERE. 
          AND, UM, SO IF YOU DO HAVE QUESTIONS, UM, RAISE YOUR HAND, WE'LL GET YOU A MICROPHONE SO EVERY, THE WHOLE REST OF THE WORLD CAN HEAR, UM, YOUR QUESTION. 
          AND, UM, BUT LET'S JUST KIND OF GO THROUGH THIS AND IT'S GOOD TO BE HERE. 
          I'M ERIC JOHNSON FROM R C S AND HERE WITH MY PARTNER RICK KERMER. 
          WE BOTH WORKED ON THIS REPORT TOGETHER. 
          AND SO, JUST A LITTLE HISTORY ABOUT R C S. 
          WE WERE FOUNDED IN 1980 BY, BY RICK, ACTUALLY, AND A COUPLE OTHER PEOPLE. 
          AND SINCE THEN WE'VE BEEN THE, THE PREMIER EXPERT WE LIKE TO SAY, AS IS IN USER FEE, COST ALLOCATION, IMPACT FEE STUDIES. 
          WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 43 YEARS. 
          UM, I MYSELF HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR OVER 30 YEARS. 
          AND THIS IS, THIS IS WHAT WE DO WORKING WITH CITIES, PUBLIC AGENCIES TO HELP THEM IDENTIFY THEIR COSTS. 
          ALRIGHT, SO THIS IS A COMPREHENSIVE STUDY. 
          WE OBVIOUSLY LOOKING AT THE USER FEES, SO MOSTLY DEVELOPMENT FEES, BUT ALSO SOME POLICE FEES, FIRE FEES, RECREATION FEES. 
          UM, WE LOOKED AT SOME RENTS, FACILITY RENTALS USE OF CITY PROPERTY. 
          AND WE REVIEWED THE, THE FINES, MUNICIPAL CODE VIOLATIONS, UM, BUILDING CODE VIOLATIONS ALSO. 
          SO WHAT HAVE WE DONE? WE'VE TURNED THE CITY BUDGET AS TO WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE IF IT WERE A BUSINESS. 
          AND WE DID THIS BECAUSE THE VOTERS TOLD US TO A PAST PROPOSITION 13, EVERYONE REMEMBERS PROPOSITION 13 IN 1978. 
          A YEAR LATER IN 1979, THEY PASSED PROPOSITION FOUR, WHICH SAID THAT THE COST THE CITIES CAN CHARGE A FEE FOR THE COST REASONABLY BORN OF PROVIDING THE SERVICE. 
          THAT'S NOT CONSIDERED A TAX AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT CHARGING MORE THAN WHAT THOSE COSTS ARE. 
          SO THAT'S WHAT WE DID WITH THIS PROCESS. 
          WE HAD TO REALLY CHANGE THE CITY BUDGET FROM WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE FROM FUND DEPARTMENT DIVISION, AND HAVE A MORE OF A SERVICE ORIENTATION. 
          WHAT ARE THE SERVICES BEING PROVIDED? WHAT ARE THE COSTS OF THOSE SERVICES, JUST LIKE A BUSINESS WOULD DO. 
          I USED THE EXAMPLE OF THE COUNCIL MADE, MY FAVORITE EXAMPLE, A CAN OF CORN. 
          YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU GO TO THE GROCERY STORE AND YOU BUY A CAN OF CORN, THAT IT INCLUDES THE FARMER, THAT IT INCLUDES THE, UH, THE TRUCKER, THAT IT INCLUDES, THE DISTRIBUTION, EVERYTHING IT TOOK TO GET THAT CAN OF CORN IN THE STORE AND THE PEOPLE IN THE STORE, INCLUDING THE CHECKER IN FRONT OF YOU. 
          YOU KNOW THAT WHEN YOU BUY THAT CAN OF CORN, WELL, WE'VE DONE THAT SAME THING HERE WITH CITY SERVICES. 
          ALL THE, ALL THE COSTS ARE IDENTIFIED AS WHAT ARE THE COSTS TO PROVIDE THAT SERVICE TO THE PUBLIC. 
          SO THERE ARE NO, THERE'S NO CITY COUNCIL SERVICE IN HERE. 
          THERE'S NO CITY MANAGER SERVICE IN HERE. 
          THEY'RE PART OF THE OVERHEAD, THE ADMIN OVERHEAD, JUST LIKE A BUSINESS WOULD DO. 
          YOU'RE NOT CHARGING A DIFFERENT FEE FOR THE, THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT AND A DIFFERENT FEE FOR ACCOUNTS PAYABLE. 
          IT'S ALL PART OF THE OVERHEAD COST AND PART OF THE COST OF THE SERVICES THAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED HERE. 
          WE ALSO MATCHED UP REVENUES WITH THOSE COSTS. 
          'CAUSE AGAIN, YOU WON'T STAY IN BUSINESS VERY LONG IF YOU CAN'T MATCH UP THE REVENUES OF THAT YOU'RE RECEIVING AS A BUSINESS WITH THE COST TO, UM, PROVIDE THAT. 
          AND THIS WAS A THOROUGH PROCESS. 
          WE LOOKED AT EVERY CITY SERVICE THAT THE, THAT IS BEING PROVIDED. 
          WE LOOKED AT WHAT ARE THE, THE CURRENT FEES THAT ARE BEING PROVIDED, BEING PROVIDED. 
          WE IDENTIFIED THOSE AREAS WHERE THEY COULD ADD SOME FEES THAT THEY'RE NOT CURRENTLY CHARGING, CHARGING THAT THEY'RE PROVIDING THOSE SERVICES. 
          WE REDEFINED CERTAIN FEES BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF TIME SINCE THE LAST TIME THIS HAS BEEN DONE AND PROCESSES HAVE CHANGED. 
          AND SO WE CHANGED THE STRUCTURE OF SOME OF THE FEES. 
          WE WANNA MAKE SURE THEY'RE LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE. 
          AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, YOU CAN'T CHARGE MORE THAN THE COST REASONABLY BORN OF PROVIDING THE SERVICE. 
          AND THAT'S BEEN DEFINED OVER THE YEARS THROUGH COURT DECISIONS IN ADDITION TO SOME, SOME ADDITIONAL, UM, VOTER PROPOSITIONS. 
          AND SO WE, WE'VE GONE THROUGH AND MADE SURE THAT THESE ARE LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE FEES. 
          WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THE REVENUE IS BEING COLLECTED UNDER THE CURRENT FEES. 
          AND WE'RE AWARE OF MARKET DEMAND FOR CERTAIN FEES, ESPECIALLY WHEN GET INTO THE RECREATION AREA. 
          SO WHAT DID WE DO? WE, AGAIN, WE NEEDED TO IDENTIFY WHAT ARE THE SERVICES BEING PROVIDED. 
          WENT THROUGH THAT WITH, WITH EACH DEPARTMENT IDENTIFIED ALL THE SERVICES BEING PROVIDED AND THEN ALLOCATED STAFF TIME TO ALL THOSE SERVICES. 
          WHO'S PROVIDING 
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THE SERVICE? HOW MUCH TIME DOES IT TAKE? HOW MUCH TIME OF THEIR DAY ARE THEY SPENDING? HOW MANY OF THESE ARE YOU DOING? WE WENT THROUGH THAT PROCESS WITH STAFF OVER AGAIN AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL WE ALL FELT COMFORTABLE AT THIS TIME WAS ACCURATE. 
          AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HELPED WITH THAT IS WE ALLOCATED OUT A HUNDRED PERCENT OF EVERYBODY. 
          SO WE'RE NOT JUST SAYING THEY SPENT AN HOUR HERE AND TWO HOURS THERE. 
          THAT ALL ADDS UP. 
          HOW MANY OF THESE ARE YOU DOING? WELL, WE DO 10 OF THOSE. 
          OKAY, THAT'S 10 HOURS OR THAT'S 20 HOURS. 
          AND WE ADD UP ALL THAT TIME SO THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HOW MUCH OF STAFF TIME ARE WE ALLOCATING? IF IT'S OVER A HUNDRED PERCENT, WELL WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM. 
          WE GOTTA GO BACK AND TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT THE DATA. 
          IF IT'S LESS THAN A HUNDRED PERCENT OF WHAT WE'VE ALLOCATED ALREADY, WHAT ELSE ARE THEY DOING? SO THINGS LIKE ADMINISTRATIVE SUPPORT OR TAX SUPPORTED SERVICES. 
          AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE LATER. 
          THAT YOU'RE PROVIDING DIRECTLY TO THE PUBLIC THAT YOU'RE NEVER GONNA CHARGE A FEE FOR POLICE AND FIRE AND STREETS AND PARKS. 
          SO THAT'S OUR STARTING POINT. 
          WHAT ARE THE SERVICES BEING PROVIDED? WHO'S PROVIDING THEM? HOW MUCH TIME DOES IT TAKE? WE THEN NEEDED TO CALCULATE THE COST SIDE. 
          SO FOR EVERY POSITION IN THE CITY, WE DEVELOPED A FULLY ALLOCATED HOURLY RATE, SALARIES, BENEFITS, GENERAL OPERATING EXPENSES LIKE SUPPLIES, OFFICE SUPPLIES AND SUCH. 
          BUT ALSO THAT OVERHEAD COMPONENT. 
          WE DID A COST ALLOCATION PLAN WHERE WE, FOR ALL THE ADMIN DEPARTMENTS, WE WENT THROUGH THOSE DEPARTMENTS AND WHO ARE YOU PROVIDING SERVICES TO? WHAT SERVICES ARE YOU PROVIDING? AND COME UP WITH ALLOCATION FACTORS FOR EACH OF THOSE SERVICES WE IDENTIFIED SO THAT WE'RE FAIRLY ALLOCATING THAT OVERHEAD COST BACK TO THE DEPARTMENTS WHO USE IT, THEY'RE THEIR CUSTOMERS. 
          SO THAT THEN BECOMES PART OF THE COST OF A PLANNER OR A POLICE OFFICER OR A FIREFIGHTER. 
          SO WE THEN MATCH UP THAT TIME DETAIL WITH THAT COST DETAIL. 
          AND NOW WE KNOW WHAT THE SERVICES COST. 
          WE SAT DOWN AGAIN WITH THE DEPARTMENTS, REVIEWED THAT INFORMATION. 
          HERE'S THE CURRENT FEE, HERE'S THE COST, HERE'S WHAT CHANGE WE NEED TO MAKE TO THE FEE TO MAKE SURE WE'RE RECOVERING THAT COST. 
          NOT MORE THAN THAT COST, CERTAINLY. 
          AND THAT'S WHAT WE ENDED UP HERE WITH THE FINAL REPORT ARE THE RESULT OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS WITH STAFF, THE CALCULATIONS THAT WE, WE DID AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT ARE IN THE REPORT FOR EACH OF THE OVER 200 SERVICES THAT WE IDENTIFIED. 
          SO AGAIN, WE LOOKED AT ALL THE SERVICES WE'RE PROVIDING AND THE WAY WE KINDA LOOK AT THE, THE, UM, THE DIFF ALL THE DIFFERENT SERVICES, TAX SERVICES VERSUS FEE SERVICES, COMMUNITY SUPPORTED SERVICES VERSUS PERSONAL CHOICE SERVICES, TAXES, PAY FOR COMMUNITY SUPPORTED SERVICES. 
          THAT'S WHAT TAXES ARE FOR. 
          THINGS THAT ONLY TAXES CAN PAY FOR. 
          AND IMPORTANTLY, BENEFITS THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE. 
          POLICE, PATROL, FIRE SUPPRESSION, PARK MAINTENANCE, STREET MAINTENANCE, THOSE THINGS THAT YOU'RE NOT CHARGING A FEE FOR, YOU CAN'T CHARGE A FEE FOR. 
          AND THAT'S WHAT TAXES PAY FOR. 
          ON THE OTHER SIDE, WHAT WE CALL PERSONAL CHOICE SERVICES, THOSE THINGS THAT YOU COULD CHARGE A FEE FOR, YOU DON'T HAVE TO, BUT CUSTOMER IS IDENTIFIABLE. 
          SERVICE IS MEASURABLE. 
          AND IMPORTANTLY, IT BENEFITS AN INDIVIDUAL OR A GROUP AND NOT THE LARGER COMMUNITY. 
          YOU CAN STILL DECIDE TO SUBSIDIZE THESE SERVICES. 
          YOU JUST CAN'T CHARGE MORE THAN THE COST. 
          BUT THE COUNCIL CAN DECIDE TO CHARGE LESS IF THEY FEEL THAT CERTAIN SERVICES HAVE A, A LARGER BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY, EVEN IF IT'S NOT WHAT WE CALL A COMMUNITY SUPPORTED SERVICE. 
          RECREATION SERVICES ARE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT. 
          THROUGH THIS REPORT, WE IDENTIFIED OVER $13 MILLION IN SUBSIDY OF THOSE, THOSE SERVICES THAT COULD BE CHARGED A FEE THAT ARE NOT TO THE LEVEL OF THEIR COST. 
          SO THE, IF TO THE EXTENT THAT THE FEE DOES NOT COVER THE COST OF THE SERVICE, SERVICE IS BEING PROVIDED, QUESTION NOW IS WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR IT. 
          AND IF THE FEE IS NOT PAYING FOR IT, BY DEFINITION, THE TAXPAYER IS PAYING FOR IT. 
          THAT'S THE ONLY SOURCE OF MONEY THAT THE CITY HAS. 
          I DO, AND FIRST I HAVE A SUMMARY OF THAT LIST. 
          SO 13 MILLION THERE, YOU SEE THE 13 MILLION IN THE, IN THE THIRD COLUMN OF NUMBERS THERE. 
          AND SO FIRST COLUMN OF NUMBERS, TOTAL FEE REVENUE. 
          SO UNDER YOUR CURRENT REVENUES, THIS IS WHAT IS BEING PROVIDED. 
          TOTAL SERVICE COST. 
          WHAT ARE THE ADDITIONAL, WHAT ARE THE COSTS OF THOSE SERVICES? AND THEN THE SUBSIDY OR PROFIT IN THE COLUMN AFTER THAT. 
          NOW, SINCE THE LAST MEETING, WE DID MAKE A, A COUPLE CHANGES TO THE RECREATION IN THE, THE SPORTS PEC PLEX PROGRAM THAT I'LL GO INTO MORE DETAIL LATER. 
          UM, SO IT'S THAT $13 MILLION NUMBER'S A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN IT WAS AT OUR LAST MEETING. 
          SO OVER OVERALL, THE CITY'S RECOVERING ABOUT 43% OF THE COST OF THESE VARIOUS FEE FEE SERVICES. 
          NOW IT'S THAT LAST COLUMN ABOUT $1.4 MILLION IS WHAT WE THINK THAT IF ALL THE RECOMMENDATIONS IN THIS REPORT WERE ACTED ON, 
          [00:10:01]
THAT THAT'S WHAT WE THINK THE CITY CAN RECOVER, NOT 13000001.4. 
          THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE. 
          AND THERE'S A COUPLE REASONS WHY THAT IS. 
          THERE ARE SOME SERVICES IN HERE THAT EVEN THOUGH WE'VE DEFINED THEM AS PERSONAL CHOICE SERVICES, THEY'RE NOT GONNA COME CLOSE TO RECOVERING ALL OF THEIR COST. 
          POLICE, FALSE ALARM, FIRE, FALSE ALARM. 
          THE WHOLE GOAL OF THE PROGRAM IS TO GET PEOPLE TO FIX THEIR ALARMS. SO THE FIRST THREE CALLS ARE FREE. 
          WELL, MOST OF THE CALLS ARE THE FIRST THREE CALLS, BUT WE STILL HAVE THAT COST IN THERE. 
          AND IT'S A BIG COST AND A BIG SUBSIDY THAT'S NOT GONNA GO AWAY. 
          RECREATION PROGRAMS, THAT'LL BE A WHOLE DISCUSSION WE HOPE WITH THE COMMUNITY ABOUT WHICH, WHAT SUBSIDY LEVEL SHOULD THERE BE FOR, UH, COMMUNITY SERVICES PROGRAMS. 'CAUSE THERE WILL BE, YOU'RE NOT GONNA CHARGE FULL COST FOR THE VARIOUS DIFFERENT RECREATION PROGRAMS YOU'RE PROVIDING 'CAUSE PEOPLE WON'T PAY IT. 
          YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE OF THE MARKET AND LIVE WITHIN THAT. 
          SO THOSE ARE THE TWO BIGGEST REASONS WHY WE HAVE THAT BIG $13 MILLION NUMBER AND THE $1.3 MILLION NUMBER. 
          OH, THE OTHER ONE IS E M SS E M S SERVICES. 
          EVEN THOUGH THERE'S FEES IN HERE FOR THAT AND WE'RE RECOMMENDING INCREASES TO THOSE FEES, YOU'RE STILL NOT GONNA COME ANYWHERE CLOSE TO RECOVERING 100% OF THE COST. 
          AND THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF THE PROGRAM. 
          IF YOU WERE, YOU'D BE CHARGING $10,000 FOR A PARAMEDIC CALL, WHICH OBVIOUSLY IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN. 
          WHEN WE'RE DONE WITH THIS LITTLE POWERPOINT HERE, WE CAN PULL UP A COUPLE OF PLACES IN THE REPORT THAT GETS INTO MORE DETAIL. 
          'CAUSE THE REPORT ITSELF HAS ABOUT 40 PAGES OF TEXT, EXPLANATORY TEXT AND SUMMARY, UM, TABLES. 
          AND IT'LL BE THOSE SUMMARY TABLES THAT I THINK YOU'LL BE WANNA LOOK BE LOOKING AT ON CHAPTER THREE. 
          PAGES 23 TO 33, THERE'S TABLES FOR EACH OF THOSE SUBGROUPS THERE. 
          COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, PUBLIC SAFETY, COMMUNITY SERVICES, AND ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES. 
          THERE'LL BE THE SUMMARY TABLES THAT FOR EACH SERVICE IDENTIFIES WHAT'S THE, THE CURRENT REVENUE, WHAT'S THE COST, WHAT'S THE SUBSIDY, WHAT'S THE POSSIBLE NEW REVENUE. 
          AND THEN FOR EACH OF THOSE, YOU KNOW, SAY THEY'LL HAVE THAT S NUMBER OFF TO THE LEFT THERE SS 0 0 1 S, 0 0 2 FOR EVERY ONE OF THOSE. 
          THERE'LL BE MORE DETAIL IN APPENDIX A OF THE REPORT, WHICH IS AFTER THE TEXT, AFTER THE FIRST 40 PAGES. 
          IF YOU PULL UP THE P D F, IT'LL, THERE'LL BE BOOKMARKS THAT'LL TAKE YOU RIGHT TO APPENDIX A OR RIGHT TO APPENDIX B. 
          SO APPENDIX A FOR EVERY OF THESE SERVICES, EACH OF THOSE SS NUMBERS, WHAT'S THE CURRENT FEE? WHAT'S THE PROPOSED FEE? SO YOU CAN SEE SIDE BY SIDE, WHAT IS THE CITY CURRENTLY CHARGING AND WHAT COULD THEY CHARGE? AND THEN IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO MORE DETAIL FOR EACH OF THOSE SS NUMBERS IN APPENDIX B, THERE'LL BE THESE TWO MATCHING PAGES. 
          AND ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE WILL BE A DESCRIPTION OF THE SERVICE, WHAT THE CURRENT FEE IS OF REVENUE AND COST COMPARISON AND A RECOMMENDED FEE. 
          AND ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, IT'LL SHOW THE COST DETAIL. 
          IT'LL SHOW ALL THE POSITIONS THAT ARE INVOLVED, HOW MUCH TIME THEY'RE INVOLVED, THAT THE FULLY ALLOCATED COST ON A PER UNIT BASIS AND A TOTAL OR ANNUAL BASIS. 
          SO FOR EVERY SERVICE YOU CAN SAY, OKAY, WHY IS THIS SERVICE COSTING US $5,000? YOU CAN GET INTO IT. 
          AND OKAY, WE GOT A PLANNER SPENDING 20 HOURS ON THIS ENGINEER SPENDING FIVE HOURS ON THAT. 
          AND SO IT HAS THAT LEVEL OF DETAIL THAT YOU CAN REALLY DIVE INTO AND, AND HOPEFULLY ASK MORE QUESTIONS. 
          APPENDIX C RECREATION SUMMARY. 
          IT LISTS THE RECREATION SERVICES, BUT WITH RECREATION WE WANNA LOOK AT IT A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. 
          WE STILL IDENTIFY THE FULL COST JUST LIKE WE DO WITH EVERY OTHER SERVICE. 
          BUT FOR RECREATION SERVICES, WE WANT TAKE A STEP BACK. 
          WHAT IS IT WE CARE ABOUT HERE? WHAT WE CARE ABOUT, I THINK, IS HOW MUCH EACH OF THESE PROGRAMS IS RECOVERING AND HOW MUCH AS A COMMUNITY WE WANT THEM TO RECOVER. 
          AND SO WE TAKE A LOOK AT THE DIRECT COST, AND SO THAT DETAIL THAT'S LISTED THERE IS THE DIRECT COST. 
          AND SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT PART-TIME STAFF ARE INVOLVED, WHAT FULL-TIME STAFF ARE INVOLVED, COMPARE THAT TO THE REVENUES AND HAVE A DIRECT COST RECOVERY. 
          AND SO MY GOAL IS TO ASK THE COUNCIL TO WHAT'S, WHAT SHOULD BE THE COST RECOVERY FOR THESE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS, THE DIRECT COST RECOVERY, AND SET SOME COST RECOVERY GOALS. 
          SO INSTEAD OF SAYING THAT THIS PROGRAM SHOULD CHARGE A HUNDRED DOLLARS, THIS CHARGE SHOULD CHARGE $50. 
          SET A GOAL AND THEN LET THE RECREATION PROFESSIONALS WHO KNOW THE MARKET KNOW RECREATION PROGRAMS SET FEES WITHIN THAT GOAL. 
          IF THE COUNCIL SAYS WE WANT TO RECOVER 50% OF OUR DIRECT COST FOR YOUTH PROGRAMS, WELL THEN THEY SHOULD SET FEES THAT DON'T, THAT, THAT MEET THAT GOAL, THAT DON'T EXCEED THAT GOAL. 
          AND IF YOU 
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SET IT BASED ON DIRECT COST, IT ALLOWS THEM TO COME BACK MORE EASILY ON AN ANNUAL BASIS TO THE COUNCIL AND, AND SHOW HOW THEY HAVE MET THE GOAL OR HOW THEY HAVEN'T. 
          'CAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT THEIR DIRECT COSTS ARE. 
          IF WE HAVE TO ADD IN OVERHEAD COST AND MAINTENANCE COST, IT BECOMES A MUCH MORE COMPLICATED EXERCISE. 
          SO IT IT'S TRYING TO, IT'S TRYING TO HAVE THE COUNCIL SET A GOAL AND MAKE IT EASY FOR STAFF TO TELL COUNCIL HOW THEY'RE ACHIEVING THAT GOAL OR NOT. 
          AND THAT'S AT THE VERY BACK OF THE REPORT. 
          APPENDIX C. 
          SO OUR GOAL WAS TO IDENTIFY WHAT ARE ALL THE, THE FULL COST OF THE VARIOUS SERVICES THAT THE CITY'S PROVIDING. 
          WE'VE MADE FEE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR EVERY SERVICE THAT WE FEEL COULD BE CHARGED A FEE OR IS CHARGED A FEE OR COULD BE CHARGED A FEE. 
          IT'S NOW TO THE CITY COUNCIL OR THE COMMUNITY TO DECIDE WHICH OF THESE SERVICES SHOULD BE CHARGED THE FULL COST AND WHAT SHOULD BE SUBSIDIZED WITH TAX DOLLARS. 
          'CAUSE SERVICES ARE OCCURRING, COSTS ARE HAPPENING. 
          QUESTION NOW IS WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR IT IF THE, IF THE FEE DOESN'T COVER THE COST, THE TAXPAYER IS PAYING FOR IT AND YOU HAVE LESS MONEY FOR THINGS LIKE POLICE AND FIRE AND STREETS AND PARKS AND THAT IS IT. 
          ONE THING I DO WANNA POINT OUT IS THAT THE FEE SCHEDULE IS AVAILABLE ONLINE. 
          THERE'S A BANNER ON THE HOMEPAGE, WHICH TAKES YOU TO THE FEE SCHEDULE PAGE, WHICH HAS THE COST OF SERVICES STUDY AND OUR EXISTING SCHEDULES THERE. 
          AND THEN, UM, YOU CAN PULL UP THE P D F. 
          UH, MY NAME IS ROBINSON AND I'VE LIVED IN WEST COVINA, UH, A LONG TIME. 
          AND, UH, BUDGET CRUNCH IS AN OLD STORY HERE. 
          I MEAN, IT GOES BACK AT LEAST 30 YEARS AND, UM, PAST, UH, THE CITY, WEST COVINA USED TO OWN WATER RIGHTS. 
          AND WHENEVER THERE'S A CRUNCH, YOU KNOW, THEY KNOW THEY HAVE A YARD SALE AND SELL OFF WHATEVER THEY HAVE THAT'S VALUABLE. 
          WELL, WATER RIGHTS ARE MORE VALUABLE THAN GOLD AND THE CITY SHOULD HAVE NEVER GOTTEN RID OF THE, THE WATER COMPANIES WERE EAGER TO PICK THAT LITTLE JEWEL UP. 
          BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS, THIS IS A DECADES OLD STORY AND I DON'T THINK THAT TAXPAYERS IN WEST COVINA THAT PAY FOR POLICE AND FIRE SERVICES ARE GONNA WANT TO CUT MUCH THERE. 
          PROBABLY NONE. 
          LIKE, BECAUSE WE'RE IN THE DAYS OF COVID AND I'M AN OLD GUY, BUT, UH, THE COLD AND FLU SEASON HAS COME EVERY WINTER MY WHOLE LIFE. 
          BUT NOW THAT WE DON'T HAVE TALK ABOUT COLDS AND FLU, WE TALK ABOUT COVID INSTEAD. 
          AND, AND WE'RE COMING UP ON ANOTHER ROUND AND WE'VE SEEN THIS STORY BEFORE. 
          AND THE REASON I MENTIONED THAT IS BECAUSE IT'S GONNA PUT A LOT OF BURDEN ON THE POLICE AND FIRE DEPARTMENT. 
          SO THEIR NEEDS ARE GONNA ACCELERATE. 
          AND, UH, THERE'S NO, UH, NONE OF THE VOTERS IN WEST COVINO WANT TO CUT POLICE AND FIRE IN THE FACE OF, IN THE FACE OF WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN. 
          SO THAT LEAVES, UH, RECREATIONAL SERVICES AND THAT WAS ON THE LEFT. 
          AND IT WAS A SERVICES THAT PROVIDE WHERE THERE'S A CHOICE. 
          SO THAT'S WHY I WANT TO FOCUS ON THAT. 
          UM, BIG LEAGUE DREAMS HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT AND IT'S A BIG FINANCIAL BURDEN ON THE CITY, BUT NOT VERY MANY PEOPLE RE UH, NOT MANY RESIDENTS BENEFIT FROM IT. 
          AND JUST LIKE WE SOLD OUR WATER RIGHTS MANY YEARS AGO, THAT WAS A ASSET THAT WE SHOULDN'T SOLD. 
          WELL, BIG LEAGUE DREAMS IS A WEST COVINA ASSET AND IT'S LOCATED PRETTY CLOSE TO THE CITY OF INDUSTRY. 
          AND MAYBE WE COULD SUCKER THE, THE CITY OF INDUSTRY. 
          'CAUSE THEIR BUDGET IS, THEY HAVE NO RESIDENCE IN A HUGE BUDGET, BUDGET SURPLUS. 
          MAYBE WE COULD SUCKER 
          [00:20:01]
THEM INTO, UH, BECOMING A CO-OWNER OF BIG LEAGUE DREAMS. I MEAN, UH, THEY COULD, THEY COULD BUY 51% OF BIG LEAGUE DREAMS AND THAT WOULD TAKE A LOT OF THE BURDEN AWAY FROM WEST COVINA. 
          AND, UH, THEN THAT COULD BE, WE COULD BE CO-OWNERS. 
          THE CITY OF WEST COVINA AND THE CITY OF INDUSTRY COULD BE CO-OWNERS OF BIG LEAGUE DREAMS. AND THAT WOULD GET AT LEAST HALF OF THE WHITE ELEPHANT OFF OF OUR BACK. 
          'CAUSE I GUESS THE CITY OF INDUSTRY NEEDS RECREATIONAL SERVICES AND SOFTBALL FIELDS AS MUCH AS WE DO. 
          SO I'M NOT VERY WELL PREPARED BECAUSE I HAVEN'T, UH, SEEN THE 400 PAGE REPORT. 
          BUT, UH, BETWEEN NOW AND OUR NEXT MEETING, I WANNA LOOK AT IT. 
          BUT JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, YOU KNOW, I'D LIKE, UH, YOU KNOW, APPRAISE IT AND JUST LIKE WE SOLD VALUABLE WATER RIGHTS, WHICH WE SHOULDN'T HAVE, UH, WEST COVINA SHOULD STILL OWN THOSE. 
          AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE SAME OLD STORY BECAUSE I DON'T SEE A A A A, ESPECIALLY IN FACE OF WHAT WE'RE GONNA BE FACING IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. 
          THERE'S JUST NO POSSIBLE WAY TO CUT ANYTHING FROM THE POLICE AND FIRE IN. 
          IN FACT, IT'LL PROBABLY BE THE OPPOSITE. 
          POLICE AND FIRE ARE GONNA GO THROUGH THE ROOF 'CAUSE OF PUBLIC HEALTH PROBLEMS. OUR PUBLIC HEALTH IS DECLINING. 
          SO OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, THAT'S MY BEST IDEAS. 
          UH, KNOCK ON THE CITY OF INDUSTRY'S DOOR AND, AND TRY TO TRY TO SELL 'EM AS MUCH OF THAT ASSET AS AS WE COULD UNLOAD. 
          GREAT. 
          THANK YOU . 
          GOOD EVENING. 
          JERRY RAS, UH, WEST COVINA RESIDENT. 
          I'M ALSO A RETIRED COMMUNITY COLLEGE ADMINISTRATOR. 
          UM, I'M PROBABLY MORE CONFLICTED OVER THIS THAN I REALIZED I WOULD BE. 
          UM, MY PROFESSIONAL BELIEFS ARE IN LINE WITH WHAT YOU'RE DOING. 
          ME BEING A RESIDENT IN THE CITY, I SEE INCONSISTENCIES WITH THE WAY THAT CURRENT FEASTS ARE IMPOSED ON PEOPLE. 
          THEY CHERRY PICK WHAT THEY'RE GONNA DO. 
          THE POLITICS DRIVE IT. 
          WHERE I'M USED TO POLITICS, , I'VE DEALT WITH IT. 
          UM, ONE EXAMPLE AS YOU'RE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS THAT JUST BROUGHT IT BACK TO ME A COUPLE YEARS AGO. 
          UM, DURING THE HOLIDAYS, THERE'S VARIOUS RESIDENT HOUSES THAT DO, UM, CRAFT SHOWS AND THEY'LL HAVE HOMEMADE JAMS AND JELLIES AND PASTRIES AND STUFF. 
          AND IT'S WONDERFUL AND WE ENJOY IT. 
          ONE OF THEM THAT I IS REALLY POPULAR I GO TO AND THE CITY SHUT IT DOWN OR CODE DID BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE PROPER FEE PERMITS. 
          BUT THEY WILL NOT PUT THE PUSH CART VENDORS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A COUNTY HEALTH STICKER ON IT, BUT THEY DON'T ENFORCE THAT. 
          AND THEIR FEES THAT THE PUSH CARTS DO ARE NOMINAL FEES. 
          AND THAT'S, I UNDERSTAND FROM PEOPLE, THOSE, UH, INDIVIDUALS THAT DO THE PUSH CARTS, THEY'RE ACTUALLY WORKING FOR A LARGER COMPANY. 
          UM, AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT SEVERAL RESIDENTS THAT ARE KNOWLEDGEABLE HAVE TOLD ME. 
          SO FOR ME TO WATCH OR OR LIVE IN A CITY THAT CHERRY PICKS A RESIDENCE DOING SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY LIKE OUT OF THEIR HOUSE AND THEY HAD TO STOP SELLING THEIR BAKED GOODS. 
          BUT DAILY WE HAVE PEOPLE SELLING FOOD WITHOUT A HEALTH PERMIT THAT'S INCONSISTENT. 
          AND I, THAT BOTHERS ME BIG TIME. 
          UM, OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT IS NOT, HAS A LOT AND POLICE DEPARTMENT, THEY HAVE FEES. 
          I DID LOOK AT THE PAGES,  OKAY. 
          I COULDN'T REGURGITATE IT BACK, BUT I DID. 
          AND THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, THE FINANCE DIRECTOR AND SOME OF US HAVE HAD LITTLE DISCUSSIONS. 
          ALL THE CITY DOES IS MONITOR THEM. 
          SO WE'RE GONNA INCREASE THEIR FEES SO THEY GET MORE MONEY SO THEY CAN JUST KEEP SPENDING MORE AND MORE AND MORE AND MORE. 
          AND NOBODY AND THE CITY COUNCIL OR THE STAFF WILL ASK THEM, I'M GONNA SAY ASK THEM TO STAY WITHIN THEIR BUDGET. 
          I PAY FOR THIS STUFF . 
          YOU PAY FOR IT. 
          YOU PAY FOR IT. 
          WE DO NOT SEE ANY CONTROLS, EFFECTIVE CONTROLS ON OUR COUNT BY OUR COUNCIL ANYMORE. 
          PREVIOUS ONES DID. 
          SO FOR ME, WHILE I PROFESSIONALLY THINK AND HAVE ALWAYS THOUGHT WHEN I WAS WORKING TOO, THE PUBLIC SECTOR 
          [00:25:01]
MESSES UP A BIT BY NOT RAISING FEES. 
          SMALL AMOUNTS MORE FREQUENTLY WE GO UNTIL WE'RE REALLY SUBSIDIZING WITH OUR GENERAL FUND AND THEN WE KICK IN A FEE THING AND EVERYBODY GETS UPSET AND WE EITHER BACK OFF OR WE DON'T DO ENOUGH. 
          SO I DO THINK YOUR REPORT WAS GOOD . 
          OKAY. 
          I'M HIGHLY CONCERNED ABOUT OUR CITY COUNCIL AND STAFF IMPLEMENTING THIS. 
          UM, SO THAT'S MY INITIAL REACTION. 
          OKAY. 
          THANK YOU. 
          I HAVE, I HAVEN'T READ THE FULL 400 PAGES AND I KIND OF, IT'S GREAT NIGHTTIME READING. 
          I, YEAH,  I CONCENTRATED ON THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES. 
          UM, ONE THING WHICH I UNDERSTAND, IT'S NOT JUST THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT, BUT I GUESS YOU ALSO INCLUDE ENGINEERING AND PUBLIC WORKS. 
          NOW I DO KNOW WITH EACH ONE OF THOSE AREAS, THERE ARE CERTAIN DOCUMENTS THAT THE CITY IS ASKED TO PRODUCE. 
          FOR EXAMPLE, WITH PLANNING, IT'S THEIR GENERAL PLAN DOCUMENT. 
          NOW THE FEE FOR HAVING SOMETHING LIKE THAT PREPARED, WHICH STAFF NORMALLY DOESN'T HAVE THE BODIES NOR MAYBE THE EXPERTISE TO DO IN-HOUSE, ARE THOSE ITEMS COVERED UNDER THE DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEE FOR, FOR THOSE THINGS THAT JUST GENERAL MAINTENANCE AND GENERAL UPDATES OF THE GENERAL PLAN, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT ARE MORE PAID FOR OUT OF TAXES THAT WE CALL ADVANCE PLANNING FOR A DEVELOPER COMING AND WANTING TO DO A GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT WHERE THE DEVELOPER'S ASKING FOR IT, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE A FEE FOR IN HERE TO COVER THOSE COSTS AND SHOULD BE DESIGNED IN A WAY TO COVER THE CONTRACT COST ALSO TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE GETTING ALL THOSE. 
          SO, UM, SHOULDN'T BE USING DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEES FOR, FOR ANY OF THAT. 
          THAT SHOULD ALL BE FOR INFRASTRUCTURE. 
          AND THE, THE, UM, RELATED TO THAT AND NOT FOR THE OPERATIONAL PROCESSES, DAY-TO-DAY PROCESSES DEVELOP, OH, THE, THE GENERAL PLAN MAINTENANCE CHARGE. 
          UH, WE DID ADD A GENERAL PLAN MAINTENANCE CHARGE WHERE IT CO COVERS SOME OF THE COSTS. 
          THAT IS A SURCHARGE ON ONGOING DEVELOPMENT TO HELP TO COVER SOME OF THAT COST. 
          UM, WHEN YOU DO UPDATE, UPDATE THE GENERAL PLAN, RIGHT, BECAUSE JUST LIKE ONE OF THE ELEMENTS IN THE GENERAL PLAN IS THE HOUSING ELEMENT. 
          MM-HMM. 
           NORMALLY THE GENERAL PLAN, IF CITIES HAVE THE MONEY, THEY TRY TO UPDATE THAT EVERY 10 YEARS. 
          RIGHT? THE LAST TIME WEST VENA OVERHAULED THEIRS WAS IN 2016. 
          SO THEY'RE COMING UP . 
          SO TIME ROLLS OFF. 
          UHHUH . 
          IT DOES, IT DOES. 
          AND I, AND I GUESS WHAT I WAS GATHERING IN LOOKING AT THE SERVICES, UM, THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO AT LEAST HAVE A CERTAIN PORTION OF THE SERVICE COST BEING DONE, IF YOU CAN, UNDER SOME TYPE OF A PERMIT OR FEE TAKING OFF SO THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SUBSIDIZED BY THE GENERAL FUND, RIGHT? E EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE, IT, IT'S APPLICANT DRIVEN, DEVELOPER DRIVEN, NOT JUST PART OF THE REGULAR CITY BUSINESS THAT LET'S SAY THE CITY COUNCIL HAS A POLICY CHANGE AND THERE THERE'S A GENERAL PLAN AMENDMENT THAT COMES OUT OF THAT. 
          THAT'S SOMETHING THAT PAID FOR BY THE CITY, BY THE TAXPAYER. 
          BUT IF I'M A DEVELOPER, IF I'M, I HAVE THIS PROJECT, WHATEVER THAT PROJECT IS, IT CAN BE A, A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT THAT A BUSINESS WANTS OR A, A TENTATIVE MAP IF SOMEONE'S TRYING TO SUBDIVIDE THEIR PROPERTY THAT IS, HAS CURRENT FEES. 
          BUT WE'RE SAYING THAT THOSE CURRENT FEES DON'T COVER THE COST BECAUSE IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE IT'S BEEN STUDIED AND REVIEWED AND UPDATED. 
          SO IF YOU'RE JUST DOING C P I INCREASES, IT GENERALLY DOESN'T KEEP UP. 
          AND SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE'RE RECOMMENDED IN HERE THAT YOU, THAT THE CITY COUNCIL ADJUST THE FEES TO RECOVER 100% OF THE COSTS THAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED. 
          NOW, ARE YOU ALSO, AS PART OF THE REPORT, SUGGESTING THAT THE CITY ALSO HAVE A PLAN EVERY, IF IT'S EVERY THREE YEARS OR EVERY FOUR YEARS GOING BACK AND LOOKING AT ? YEAH, IT, IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE PUT IN THE REPORT. 
          IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE RECOMMEND. 
          WE'VE TALKED WITH THE CITY ABOUT IT. 
          IT SHOULD, EVERY THREE TO FIVE YEARS IS SOMETHING THAT THE CITY SHOULD BE DOING A REVIEW OF THEIR FEES IN ADDITION TO THE C P I INCREASES IN BETWEEN, ON A POSITIVE NOTE, YOU HAVE A POLICY REGARDING NEW SERVICES. 
          THAT PARAGRAPH I THOUGHT WAS VERY GOOD AND IT REALLY SHOULD BE DONE. 
          I'M SKEPTICAL THAT THE CURRENT COUNCIL AND STAFF WOULD DO IT, BUT I WOULD ENCOURAGE THEM, IT'S ON PAGE 33 THAT I WOULD REALLY ENCOURAGE THAT THEY TAKE THAT SERIOUSLY BECAUSE IT'S NEEDED. 
          AND WHAT IT IS IS THAT THE, UH, CITY COUNCIL ADOPT A POLICY OF NOT STARTING ANY NEW SERVICE WITHOUT A COST ANALYSIS USING THE COSTING APPROACH UTILIZED IN THIS REPORT. 
          SO AS TO DETERMINE WAYS IN WHICH THE SERVICE COULD BE FEE FEE FINANCED IF AT ALL 
          [00:30:01]
POSSIBLE. 
          I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA. 
          IT, IT'S, IT, A LOT OF IT'S CHANGING MINDSET. 
          MM-HMM. 
          , YOU KNOW, OF THE COMMUNITY, OF THE COUNCIL OF, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE WANTS TO PROVIDE SERVICES. 
          THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE. 
          THAT'S WHY CITIES ARE EXIST. 
          BUT AT SOME POINT, WHO'S BENEFITING FROM IT? WHO'S PAYING FOR IT? WHAT I FOUND AFTER I RETIRED, AND IT WAS REALLY AN EYE-OPENER TO ME, COMMUNITY COLLEGES HAVE TO STAY WITHIN THEIR BUDGETS. 
          SO WE HAVE TO BE SELF-SUPPORTING OR WE JUST USE OUR GENERAL FUNDS UP. 
          THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE THAT. 
          AND SO THEY JUST SPEND, AND WE'RE NOT SEEING THE ANALYSIS WE USED TO SEE BEFORE. 
          AND I'D LIKE TO SEE THEM GET BACK TO IT. 
          AND I THINK IF THIS WAS AN OPENING DOOR TO DOING COST ANALYSIS, I COULD SUPPORT IT. 
          UM, WHAT PEOPLE DON'T REAL OFTENTIMES REALIZE IS WE, THE RESIDENTS ARE PAYING THESE FEES, A BUILDER JUST TAX IT ONTO OUR BILL IF YOU'RE ADDING ON IT PASSED ON. 
          WELL, THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY TRUE. 
          YOU, WHEN YOU BUY A HOUSE, THE MARKET DETERMINES THE PRICE OF THAT HOUSE. 
          RIGHT. 
          AND AT A CERTAIN POINT, IF THE, IF THE DEVELOPER FEELS HE CAN'T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY, HE JUST WON'T BUILD THE HOUSE. 
          BUT IF I WANNA ADD A ROOM ON WHICH WHEN I BOUGHT THIS HOUSE I DID, I I'M THE ONE THAT'S ACTUALLY GONNA PAY THOSE FEES TO THE CONTRACTOR. 
          OH, RIGHT. 
          YEAH. 
          IF YOU WANNA ADD ONTO YOUR OWN HOUSE. 
          YES. 
          RIGHT. 
          ABSOLUTELY. 
          SO WE AS RESIDENTS SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT HOW MUCH THE CITY'S FEES ARE. 
          SURE. 
          BECAUSE I MEAN, IT'S BEYOND JUST THE DOG PER LICENSE TYPE OF THING. 
          YEP. 
          YEAH. 
          LET, LET ME CHECK OVER THERE FIRST. 
          ANYBODY GOT ANYTHING OVER HERE? UH, ON THE SUBJECT OF, TO CONTINUE ON THE SUBJECT OF DUE SERVICES, UH, UH, THE CALIFORNIA HAS 58 COUNTIES AND 58 HEALTH DEPARTMENTS IN PASADENA AND LONG BEACH, I GUESS HAVE THEIR OWN HEALTH DEPARTMENTS. 
          AND THERE'S BEEN TALK IN THE LAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS TO PERHAPS HAVE, UH, PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICES IN WEST COVINA. 
          AND THEY, THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE PAID FOR. 
          AND I, I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY LESS THAN A DOZEN RESIDENTS IN WEST COVINA THAT THINK THERE SHOULD BE A WEST COVINA HEALTH DEPARTMENT. 
          THE REST OF THEM ARE ON THE OTHER SIDE ARE NEUTRAL. 
          SO, UH, I WANTED TO MENTION THAT PERHAPS ON THE SUBJECT OF NEW SERVICES, WE DON'T NEED TO BE A A A A CITY HEALTH DEPARTMENT. 
          AND COULD YOU HELP ME OUT? I'VE LIVED HERE FOR A LONG TIME, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT THE CITY'S DIVIDED UP INTO NINE DEPARTMENTS. 
          UH, AND, UH, COULD, COULD YOU NAME THOSE NINE? SO LET'S SEE IF I CAN, I IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT HERE. 
          EVERY CITY KIND OF DOES IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, POLICE AND FIRE, UM, PUBLIC SERVICES, NOT PUBLIC WORKS. 
          UM, COMMUNITY SERVICES. 
          YOU KNOW, THEY A AND UH, AND I'M NOT SURE HOW THE ADMIN DEPARTMENTS ARE BROKEN UP. 
          IT'S USUALLY CITY MANAGER. 
          CITY CLERK. 
          YEAH. 
          WELL, POLICE AND FIRE I THINK ARE THREE OF THE NINE. 
          AND I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THOSE. 
          BUT THE OTHER SIX, THE OTHER SIX, WELL, THERE'S THE ADMINISTRATIVE DEPARTMENTS, CITY MANAGER, HUMAN RESOURCES, CITY CLERK. 
          THOSE ARE, THEY DON'T PROVIDE, MOSTLY DON'T PROVIDE SERVICES TO THE PUBLIC, BUT PROVIDE SUPPORT TO THE REST OF THE ORGANIZATION. 
          SO KIND OF TAKE THOSE OFF. 
          SO YOU'RE, YOU'RE KIND OF PUBLIC WORKS, PUBLIC SERVICES, YOU KNOW, MAINTENANCE AND, UM, THE COMMUNITY SERVICES RECREATION. 
          SO THOSE ARE THE TWO PROGRAMS THAT ARE TYPICALLY TAX SUPPORTED. 
          ALTHOUGH THERE ARE FEE SERVICES AND FEE PROGRAMS IN COMMUNITY SERVICES, IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF HOW MUCH IS IT GONNA BE SUBSIDIZED VERSUS, VERSUS SAYING IT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT COST RECOVERY. 
          YEAH. 
          WELL, ANYWAY, UH, IT LOOKS LIKE, UH, IT LOOKS LIKE COMMUNITY, UH, SERVICES AND, UH, RECREATIONAL SERVICES ARE THE ONES THAT, UH, MAYBE A MAJORITY OF THE PUBLIC WOULD BE WILLING TO, IF WE HAVE TO, UH, SAVE MONEY AND IMPOSE FEES, THOSE MIGHT BE THE CANDIDATES. 
          BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE THE, UH, THE OTHER, THE POLICE AND FIRE AND PUBLIC SAFETY IS KIND OF OFF LIMITS. 
          SO, UH, WE'RE THAT WE JUST HAVE TO DEAL WITH WHAT WE HAVE LEFT AND WHAT DEVELOPMENT SERVICE. 
          YEAH. 
          WELL, UH, ISN'T CITY OF WEST COVINA PRETTY MUCH BUILT, BUILT OUT? YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN HEARING FOR YEARS THAT IT'S WAS THOSE DEPARTMENTS YEAH, YEAH. 
          THEY'RE, THEY'RE STAYING BUSY. 
          THEY'RE PROCESSING APPLICATIONS, DEVELOPMENT'S HAPPENING. 
          IT MAY NOT BE THE BIG TRACKS LIKE IT USED TO BE, BUT THERE'S STILL A LOT OF, UH, DEVELOPMENT AND JUST AS A REGION, WE'RE GETTING DENSER. 
          YEAH, WE'RE GETTING TALLER. 
          AND THAT'S GONNA BE, YOU KNOW, I LIVE IN BREA, SO I, YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST SOMETHING THAT THIS REGION IS GONNA CHANGE IN THAT WAY. 
          AND SO THAT MEANS ONGOING DEVELOPMENT. 
          [00:35:01]
WELL, AND, AND UH, AND THEN YOU HAVE TO ASK THE WEST CAMINO RESIDENTS WHETHER THEY WANNA LIVE IN A BEEHIVE OR NOT. 
          AND MAYBE THE MAJORITY OF RESIDENTS DON'T WANT THAT. 
          SO, UH, TO THE EXTENT THAT WEST COVINA CAN BE CONSIDERED BUILT OUT, MAYBE, UH, REDEVELOPMENT COULD BE A, A ALONGSIDE COMMUNITY SERVICES AND, UH, RECREATIONAL SERVICES. 
          I MEAN, I THINK IT'S A, WE SOLD OFF OUR RIGHT WATER RIGHTS YEARS AGO, WHICH WE SHOULDN'T HAVE. 
          BUT GOSH, I MEAN, IF WE COULD JUST SELL BIG LEAGUE DREAMS TO THE CITY OF INDUSTRY. 
          I MEAN, THE CITY OF INDUSTRY'S GOT A BIG TAX. 
          THEY HAVE NO RESIDENTS AND, AND A BIG, BIG BUDGET. 
          SO, UH, THEY COULD AFFORD IT. 
          I MEAN, WE COULD, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, PUT ON OUR SALESMAN'S HAT AND SEE, WE SEE IF WE CAN GET RID OF MOST OF OUR WHITE ELEPHANTS AND WE COULD BE CO-OWNERS, UH, WEST COVINA AND THE CITY OF INDUSTRY OF BIG LEAGUE DREAMS. SO THAT'S, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, BUT YOU KNOW, THE CITY OF HEALTH DEPARTMENT AND, AND THE, IN THE CATEGORY OF NEW SERVICES, UH, I DON'T, I CAN'T SEE THE RESIDENTS WANTING TO SUPPORT THAT WITH THEIR FEES OR TAXES OR ANYTHING. 
          SO THIS REPORT DID NOT INCLUDE THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT NOR ANY EVALUATION OF ITS FEES. 
          THE CITY IS CURRENTLY IN A HOLDING PATTERN FOR THAT AT, UH, THE TIME IN WHICH WE ARE GIVEN DIRECTION AS TO WHAT PROGRAMS WE MIGHT BE EVEN ABLE TO APPLY FOR, FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY. 
          THERE WOULD BE AN ASSESSMENT DONE AND THOSE WOULD BE EVALUATED AT THAT TIME. 
          WELL, WELL IF YOU IN THE HOLDING PATTERN THAT'S ON THE BALLOT AND RESIDENT WOULD HAPPILY VOTE THE WHOLE DISMISS THE WHOLE SUBJECT. 
          AGAIN, THAT'S NOT INCLUDED IN THIS FEAST GET STUDY , WHICH WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TONIGHT. 
          THE RECREATION BILL HAD MENTIONED LIKE RECREATIONAL FEES. 
          I, IT'S MY COMMUNITY COLLEGE BACKGROUND. 
          I THINK WE HAD TO MAKE OUR PROGRAM SELF-SUPPORTING. 
          AND SO IF YOU WERE A COMMUNITY SERVICES TEACHER OF A NON-CREDIT CLASS, YOU ACTUALLY HAD TO MAKE SURE THAT CLASS PAID FOR ITSELF. 
          I THINK THAT'S A REASONABLE REQUEST, UM, LEVEL FOR CERTAIN THINGS IS THAT THEY PAY, BE SELF SUPPORTING. 
          ONE OF THE THINGS THAT DOES CONCERN ME IS LIKE WE HAVE THE AMBULANCE SERVICE FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. 
          SOMEBODY RECENTLY JUST GOT A THOUSAND DOLLARS BILL FOR THE AMBULANCE IN THE PAST. 
          THE CITY WOULD INCLUDE THOSE TYPES OF SERVICES IN THEIR, IN THE WEST COVINA DISCOVER MAGAZINE. 
          AND THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT. 
          SO IF THE CITY GOES TO INCREASE FEES AND DOES CERTAIN OTHER TYPES OF SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES, BUT THEY ARE INEFFECTIVE AT KEEPING THE RESIDENTS INFORMED. 
          AND I DO THINK THEY ARE INEFFECTIVE AT KEEPING 'EM, UH, INFORMED. 
          WE TALK A LOT, BUT WE'RE NOT DIALOGUING OF WHAT'S REALLY EFFECTIVE. 
          UH, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE EVERY TIME THERE'S AN ISSUE, AT LEAST ONE PAGE EXPLAINING SOMETHING ABOUT DOG LICENSES, SOMETHING ABOUT THE AMBULANCE SUBSCRIPTION FEE, SOMETHING ABOUT THE, UH, FALSE ALARM FEE. 
          THERE ARE WAYS WE CAN EDUCATE PEOPLE WHERE THEY DON'T PAY THE FEES BECAUSE THEY'RE EDUCATED AND THEY KNOW HOW TO AVOID LEGALLY AVOID THE FEE. 
          THAT'S MY LAST 2 CENTS. 
          THAT'S NOTED. 
          AND WILL BE PASSED ON TO THE DEPARTMENT THAT PUTS TOGETHER THE DISCOVER. 
          GOOD EVENING. 
          MY NAME IS JEFFERSON DERU. 
          UM, I WANNA APOLOGIZE IF I'M CAUSING YOU TO REPEAT INFORMATION 'CAUSE I DID ARRIVE LATE. 
          MY QUESTION IS, IN THIS REPORT, DOES IT, DOES IT CONSIST OF A COMPARISON OF FEES FROM OTHER CITIES? AND IF SO, WHERE DO WE FALL IN THAT SCALE? IT DOES NOT. 
          UM, SO WE'RE, ARE, THE WAY WE LOOK AT IT IS WHAT ARE THE SERVICES BEING PROVIDED HERE? HOW MUCH DOES IT COST HERE? AND SET YOUR FEES BASED ON THAT COST RECOVERY WHEN YOU'RE GETTING INTO THE DEVELOPMENT FEE FEE AREA, WHETHER SOMEONE CHARGES EVEN $5,000 MORE THAN ANOTHER CITY THAT DOESN'T MOVE THE NEEDLE, THAT DOESN'T CAUSE SOMEBODY TO GO, OH, I'M GONNA GO TO COVINA BECAUSE THEY'RE, I CAN PAY $5,000 LESS WHEN I OPEN MY BUSINESS AND GET MY C U P. 
          THEY'RE, THEY WANT TO BE HERE IN WEST 
          [00:40:01]
COVINA IN A PARTICULAR PLACE BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THEY WANT TO BE. 
          OR THAT'S THE PROPERTY THEY OWN. 
          SO WE'VE, WE'VE FOUND THAT, YOU KNOW, AND THERE'S BEEN NUMEROUS STUDIES OVER THE YEARS THAT IT DOESN'T MOVE THE NEEDLE DEVELOPERS WANT YOU TO THINK IT DOES. 
          'CAUSE WHAT IT CUTS INTO IS THEIR PROFIT MARGIN. 
          AND I'M TALKING MORE PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPERS AND WHETHER THEY DECIDE TO BUILD OR NOT, BUT IT DOESN'T GET TO THAT LEVEL. 
          WHEN YOU GET TO MORE CAPITAL IMPACT FEES, WHICH ARE BIGGER DOLLAR AMOUNTS, THAT MOVES THE NEEDLE A LITTLE BIT MORE. 
          AND THAT CAN, YOU CAN HAVE THAT KIND OF DISCUSSION WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE FEES. 
          BUT A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER WHAT THE CITY'S CHARGING OR WHAT THAT CITY'S CHARGING, IT DOESN'T SLOW DOWN DEVELOPMENT IN YOUR CITY BECAUSE YOU'RE RECOVERING YOUR COSTS. 
          I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. 
          HOWEVER, LIKE MS. PORES MENTIONED EARLIER, I'M LOOKING AT IT AT IT MORE WHERE THE RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD, THE RESIDENCE. 
          MM-HMM. 
           FOR EXAMPLE, I HAD MY ROOF DONE AND THE PER THE ROOFER THAT DID IT, HE SAID, YOU KNOW, THE FEES OVER IN THIS OTHER CITY ARE LESS THAN THE ONES THAT YOU'RE BEING CHARGED HERE. 
          SO I INQUIRED AS TO WHY. 
          AND IT'S THE METHOD THAT'S USED. 
          UM, THOUGH THEY'RE EQUALLY, UH, IN TERMS OF WHAT THE, THE JOB WAS, BUT THE FEE WAS CONSIDERABLY HIGHER IN WEST COVINA THAN HIS PRIOR EXPERIENCE. 
          THAT IS THE ROOFER. 
          SO WHEN IT COMES TO THE RESIDENTS, THOUGH, IT MAY NOT IMPACT THE DEVELOPER BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY THAT THEY'RE PLAYING WITH AND THEY CAN PROBABLY REGAIN THEIR, THEIR, UM, INVESTMENTS AS ALSO INDICATED BY PASSING IT OR INCLUDING IT IN THE, UH, SALES, UM, FOR RESIDENTS THAT HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT ON, UH, YOU KNOW, NEED BASIS. 
          IT, IT'S, IT IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD STRONGLY BE CONSIDERED. 
          YEAH, IT'S, IT'S DEFINITELY, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. 
          YEAH. 
          'CAUSE THERE ARE CERTAIN FEES AND OFTENTIMES TRYING TO DIVE IN. 
          WHY IS IT DIFFERENT? USUALLY IT'S BECAUSE THAT OTHER CITY HASN'T UPDATED THEIR FEES IN A NUMBER OF YEARS. 
          UM, IT'S USUALLY THE REASON WHY WHEN THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ONE CITY AND ANOTHER, BUT SOMETIMES IT'S A DIFFERENT PROCESS. 
          SOMETIMES ONE CITY MAY BE DOING IT A DIFFERENT WAY THAN ANOTHER CITY. 
          UM, BUT IT'S USUALLY JUST BECAUSE ONE CITY HASN'T KEPT UP ON IT. 
          OR IN RARE CASES I'VE SEEN ROOFING PERMITS THAT HAVE BEEN SUBSIDIZED BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING THAT HITS RESIDENTS MORE DIRECTLY. 
          IT'S PRETTY RARE, BUT IT, IT HAS HAPPENING. 
          OFTENTIMES WE'LL SEE MORE WATER HEATER PERMITS BEING SUBSIDIZED 'CAUSE AT A CERTAIN LEVEL, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, YOU DON'T, YOU GOTTA KEEP IDEA OF WHERE YOUR COSTS ARE AND WHERE WHAT THE RESIDENTS ARE WILLING TO PAY. 
          'CAUSE YOU GET, HAVE A LOT MORE WEEKEND WORK WHERE PEOPLE JUST DON'T PAY THE PERMITS IF YOUR FEES ARE NOT AT A LEVEL THAT'S APPROPRIATE. 
          ONE OF THE OTHER CONCERNS I HAVE IS THE TIMING OF THIS. 
          PEOPLE'S POCKETBOOKS ARE REALLY HURTING RIGHT NOW. 
          AND SO IF THIS GETS JUST, I'M ALSO A BIT CONCERNED THE COUNCIL WILL CHERRY PICK WHICH FEES TO INCREASE, WHICH ONES NOT TO, WHICH ONES TO IGNORE BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT, WE'VE SEEN SOME OF THAT HAPPEN WHERE, UH, A COUNCIL SPENT QUITE A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME ON THE, UM, FALSE ALARM FEES AND THEY ADOPTED SOMETHING AND THEN WHEN IT INCON, A COUNCIL MEMBER GOT CAUGHT UP IN THAT, IT GOT SUSPENDED. 
          AND I DON'T LIKE SAYING THAT. 
          UM, BUT I DO THINK SOME OF THE FEES RIGHT NOW AT THIS TIME, UM, COULD HURT SOME PEOPLE'S POCKETBOOKS, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE IN FIXED INCOMES. 
          UM, I LIKE TO SEE THEM AT THE SENIORS. 
          I DON'T GO TO THE SENIOR CENTER, BUT I LIKE THE FACT THAT IT'S THERE AND IT'S VERY POPULAR AND THE YOUTH PROGRAMS ARE VERY POPULAR AND STUFF. 
          THAT'S, THERE'S A REALITY AND THAT, I KNOW I'VE BEEN IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS WHEN THEY TALKED ABOUT RAISING FEES ON YOUTH GROUPS AND YOU JUST FILL UP THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THE FEES. 
          SO THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT WE JUST NEED TO GET REALISTIC THEN WE SUBSIDIZE. 
          'CAUSE YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. 
          YEAH. 
          IT'S, IT'S DEF I LIKE TO ENCOURAGE THE COUNCIL TO GO INTO IT WITH THINKING A HUNDRED PERCENT COST RECOVERY AND THEN WHICH, WHICH FEES DO WE WANNA SUBSIDIZE? WHICH FEES ARE IMPORTANT ENOUGH FOR WHATEVER REASON THAT WE WANT TO SUBSIDIZE AND JUST HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH THE COMMUNITY. 
          THESE ARE THE REASONS WHY THAT'S THAT'S GREAT. 
          THAT'S WHAT THIS WHOLE PROCESS IS ABOUT. 
          EXACTLY. 
          SUBSIDIZED. 
          YEP. 
          YEP. 
          ABSOLUTELY. 
          WITH THIS PARTICULAR SERVICE REPORT, UM, DID THE CITY OF WEST COVINA HAVE ANY 
          [00:45:01]
AGENCIES THAT ARE PROVIDING SERVICES TO THE RESIDENTS THAT ARE ACTUALLY CONTRACTED? MANY? UM, BUILDING AND SAFETY ENGINEERING SERVICES ARE MOST MOSTLY CONTRACT. 
          UM, THOSE ARE THE TWO THAT COME TO MIND. 
          CAN'T THINK OF ANY BIG ONES OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD OTHER THAN THOSE, THOSE ARE TWO BIG ONES. 
          SOMETIMES WITH CITIES. 
          UM, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT PROP 13, WHEN THAT WAS PASSED IN 1978, THE WAY THAT PROPERTY TAXES WERE DONE WAS DONE DIFFERENT. 
          AND AS A RESULT THAT'S LIMITED TO THE 1% AND 1% . 
          YOU GO UP 2% A YEAR. 
          OKAY. 
          THE TWO. 
          YEAH. 
          BUT, UM, AND EVEN WITH THAT HAPPENING, THERE WAS A CHANGE IN THE SIZES OF BERRY CITY FROM THE INLAND EMPIRE TO LOS ANGELES. 
          THERE WERE, THERE WERE CHANGES MADE. 
          AND I THINK TO THE MOST PART, THEIR PERHAPS HOMEOWNERS THOUGHT WHEN THEY BOUGHT THEIR HOME, THEY DIDN'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE STREET LIGHTING. 
          BUT THE SERVICES HAS TO BE PAID FOR TO EDISON. 
          AND THEN WHEN YOU GET INTO WATER AND OTHER PUBLIC UTILITIES, NOT ALL CITIES OWN THE DIFFERENT UTILITY COMPANIES. 
          SO LIKE HOMEOWNERS, THEY END UP HAVING TO PAY BILLS TOO. 
          I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS WHEN YOU SAY FEE FOR SERVICE, AS WE KNOW, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LINE. 
          THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME TYPE OF COST, BUT ALSO FOR A CITY THERE ARE CERTAIN AMENITIES, CERTAIN QUALITY THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE. 
          WEST COVINA ISN'T ANY DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER CITIES IN SAN GABRIEL VALLEY. 
          THIS PARTICULAR, THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PARK AREA BASED ON THE POPULATION. 
          AND WE KNOW THAT OUTDOOR AREA, IT DOES PROVIDE A NICE QUALITY. 
          AND THOSE ARE THINGS THAT PEOPLE WILL LOOK AT WHEN THEY CHOOSE TO MOVE AND LIVE IN A COMMUNITY OR IF THEY CHOOSE TO WORK IN A COMMUNITY. 
          AND EVEN BUSINESSES WILL LOOK AT THAT AS WELL. 
          AND THAT'S WHERE, WHEN THE DEVELOPMENT IMPACT FEES COME BACK TO, TO THE COUNCIL, THOSE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT BUILD UP AMENITIES BY HAVING STREETS THAT CAN HANDLE THE FLOW OF TRAFFIC AND, AND HAVING PARKS AND, AND IT'S THOSE KINDS OF THINGS THAT ARE, SHOULD BE PART OF THE DISCUSSION WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT DO WE WANNA CHARGE FOR CAPITAL IMPACT FEES. 
          WHEN YOU START SEEING, I KNOW WHAT YOU SAID. 
          WHEN WE START SEEING THESE NEW DEVELOPMENTS COME IN, THERE'S REALLY NO COMMON AREA IN THOSE THINGS. 
          THERE'S A POSTAGE STAMP, LITTLE PARK, UH, GRASS, A GREEN GRASS. 
          THE ONE NEAR WHERE I LIVE, THEY SAID, WELL, THERE'S A PARK A COUPLE BLOCKS DOWN. 
          YEAH. 
          PALM VIEW PARK IS SO USED. 
          IT'S JUST A SMALL PARK THAT'S POPULAR AND WE'RE JUST GONNA HAVE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE, WE NEED MORE PARK STUFF, RECREATIONAL AREAS. 
          SO I CAN SEE SOME OF THE SUB 'CAUSE THAT MAKES A BETTER COMMUNITY AND A HAPPIER COMMUNITY. 
          , BUT YOU ALSO WANT YOUR KIDS TO BE ABLE TO LIVE IN THE CITY. 
          FAMILIES THINK ABOUT THE NEWER DEVELOPMENTS THAT WE HAVE. 
          RIGHT. 
          IF YOU'LL NOTICE SOME OF THE RENDERINGS THAT THE ARCHITECTS HAVE SHOWN, YOU SEE ARE THEY, THEY BE OF A CERTAIN AGE. 
          OKAY. 
          I GUESS THAT'S, THAT'S MY TURN. 
           AND MAYBE I'M MISSING IT HERE TONIGHT BECAUSE I CAME IN LATE. 
          I'M NOT TRYING TO USE IT AS AN EXCUSE, BUT IS THESE FEES CONSIDERATIONS? IS IT WITH REGARDS TO IT BEING SUPPLEMENTED BY THE GENERAL, UH, GENERAL FUNDS? IS THAT THE FOCUS OF THE FEE STUDY OR ARE THE FEES ACROSS THE BOARD ARE CERTAIN FEES BEING CONSIDERED TO BE INCREASED AS, UH, NEED DUE TO INFLATION OR WHAT HAVE YOU? AND IF THE LATTER IN THE PAST CITY COUNCIL HAS TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION THE COMPARISON OF FEES IN OTHER CITIES. 
          SO I'M KIND OF SURPRISED THAT IT'S NOT INCLUDED IN THIS REPORT BECAUSE, UH, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT CAME TO THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND ALARMS, UH, THESE VERY FEES THAT, UH, ARE IN QUESTION TONIGHT, JUST IN GENERAL FEES, THE PREVIOUS COUNSEL TOOK THAT INTO CONSIDERATION AND THERE WAS A COMPARISON CHART PUT OUT FOR THE RESIDENTS TO SEE THEN AS WELL. 
          SO FOR IT TO BE MISSING. 
          NOW I'M, I I GUESS I'M 
          [00:50:01]
LOSING WHAT EXACTLY THE PURPOSE OF TONIGHT AND SUBSEQUENT MEETINGS IS. 
          SURE. 
          THE PURPOSE OF THIS REPORT AND OF THIS PROCESS IS TO IDENTIFY THE COST. 
          YOU, YOU NOTICE THE TITLE OF THE REPORT IS A COST OF SERVICES REPORT. 
          AND SO WE WANNA IDENTIFY WHAT THE COSTS ARE AND THEN AS PART OF THAT WE IDENTIFY HERE ARE THE SERVICES THAT YOU CAN, YOU ARE CHARGING A FEE FOR OR YOU COULD CHARGE A FEE FOR. 
          AND WE'RE LOOKING, WHEN WE LOOK AT THOSE COSTS, HOW DOES THAT COMPARE TO WHAT YOU'RE CURRENTLY CHARGING? OKAY. 
          IF THERE'S A SUBSIDY, THEN HERE'S A RECOMMENDATION TO RECOVER THOSE COSTS. 
          SO THAT'S ABOUT GENERAL FUND RECOVERY. 
          'CAUSE THESE ARE GENERAL FUND DEPARTMENTS THAT ARE PROVIDING THESE SERVICES. 
          AND SO THAT'S ABOUT GENERAL FUND RECOVERY. 
          WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR THE SERVICE IS THE QUESTION WE'RE ASKING. 
          COSTS ARE OCCURRING, WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR IT? TAXPAYER OR THE FEE PAYER? 'CAUSE THAT'S YOUR ONLY TWO CHOICES. 
          AND RIGHT NOW IT'S FOR MOST OF THESE FEE SERVICES, IT'S A MIX OF THE TWO BECAUSE THE FEES DON'T COVER THE COST. 
          AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THIS PROCESS. 
          THE, THE FEE COMPARISON, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY WE CAN, IF THE COUNCIL DIRECTS US TO, WE CAN WORK WITH STAFF AND DEVELOP SOME, IF THERE'S CERTAIN TARGETED FEES THEY WANT TO, TO LOOK AT, WE CAN WORK WITH STAFF ON THAT. 
          UM, PUTTING TOGETHER, OH, YOU SAID, UM, THAT WAS  DEPARTMENT HEADS ARE WORKING ON A FEE COMPARISON. 
          OKAY. 
          NO . 
          OKAY. 
          BUT, BUT, AND, AND, AND, AND, UM, AND, AND AND JUST SAYING HERE'S THE COST. 
          AND, BUT AGAIN, IF THERE'S CERTAIN FEES THAT THEY WANT TO, TO LOOK AT, WE CAN CERTAINLY WORK WITH STAFF ON THAT. 
          WE, AS I TALKED AT THE COUNCIL MEETING A WEEK OR SO AGO, WHEN IT COMES TO THE DEVELOPMENT AREA, YOU KNOW, ROOF, ROOF PERMITS ARE ONE THING. 
          BUT WHEN IT COMES TO DEVELOPMENT GENERALLY TO BUILD A HOUSE OR TO BUILD A STRIP MALL OR TO LOOK AT WHAT DOES IT COST, WHAT DOES ANOTHER CITY CHARGE FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT, EVERY CITY DEFINES IT DIFFERENTLY. 
          SO WE CAN'T JUST LOOK AT THOSE INDIVIDUAL ONES. 
          BUT WHEN WE HAVE LOOKED AT FROM START TO FINISH, WHAT DOES IT COST TO BUILD THIS OR TO BUILD THIS, EVEN THEN WE RUN INTO ISSUES BECAUSE WHAT ARE THE SERVICES THAT THAT CITY REQUIRES? WELL, IF I HAVE, IF WE HAVEN'T WORKED IN THAT CITY, WE DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW. 
          SO WE'RE KIND OF GUESSING BECAUSE THEY REALLY DEFINE THINGS DIFFERENTLY. 
          EVERY CITY HAS DIFFERENT WAYS OF DEFINING THEIR LIST OF SERVICES, WHICH I LOVE 'CAUSE IT KEEPS ME INTERESTED. 
          UM, BUT, AND THEN SOME CITIES CHARGE DEPOSITS. 
          WELL, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT APPLICANT AND PAID AT THE END OF THE DAY AFTER OFF THAT $2,000 DEPOSIT. 
          AND, AND SO WHEN WE HAVE DONE THESE FEE COMPARISONS ON THE DEVELOPMENT SIDE, IT'S REALLY HASN'T PROVIDED A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION TO BE ABLE TO ACT UPON BECAUSE OF ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS. 
          UM, AND THEN ALSO IF, YOU KNOW, I MENTIONED EARLIER ABOUT THOSE CITIES THAT JUST HAVEN'T UPDATED THEIR FEES IN 10 YEARS OR 20 YEARS. 
          DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BE MATCHED THEM? IS YOU WANNA MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T BECOME A RACE TO THE BOTTOM FOR FOR FEES. 
          SO THAT'S WHY I ASKED THE COUNCIL TO THINK ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF COST RECOVERY, WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR IT? AND DO YOU, THEY HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH POWER TO SUBSIDIZE ANY OF IT OR ALL OF IT. 
          BUT THOSE COMES, COMES WITH CONSEQUENCES. 
          THOSE COMES WITH, YOU KNOW, OPPORTUNITIES LOST BECAUSE NOW YOU DON'T HAVE THAT MONEY THAT YOU CAN SPEND ON OTHER THINGS. 
          AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT I, BUT I GUESS WHAT I'M THINKING ABOUT IS THE, THE STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN DONE HAVE ALMOST CONSISTENTLY SHOWN THAT OTHER CITIES FEES ARE HIGHER THAN OURS. 
          IT'S KIND OF BEEN USED AS A JUSTIFICATION FOR THE INCREASE. 
          SO I I'M, I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT THAT WOULD BE THE SCENARIO THAT WE WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, RACING TO THE BOTTOM IN THIS CASE. 
          UM, BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THE STUDY, I'M NOT SURE WHY IT HASN'T BEEN INCLUDED SOMEONE, WAS IT THAT THERE WAS A BELIEF THAT IT WAS, IT WAS GONNA BE INCLUDED. 
          WE, WE DON'T DO COMPARISONS WITH OUR STUDIES AND NEVER HAVE, UM, WHEN, WHEN THERE HAVE BEEN STUDIES, UH, COMPARISONS ASSOCIATED WITH OUR STUDIES, IT'S USUALLY SOMETHING THAT WE'LL WORK WITH STAFF SEPARATELY. 
          UM, BUT WE REALLY PUSH BACK ON DOING COMPARISONS. 
          I TURNED IT OFF LIKE JD, I TOO AM VERY AWARE OF THOSE COMPARISONS. 
          AND IT'S, AS YOU'RE TALKING, I KEEP SEEING THE FIRE CHIEF AND HE IS ALWAYS BEVERLY HILLS. 
          BEVERLY HILLS. 
          BEVERLY HILLS IS THE CITY THAT KEEPS POPPING UP. 
          AND THEY HAVE MORE THAN WE DO, I THINK TO SELL. 
          I I THINK IT'S A REAL THING. 
          I DON'T WANNA SEE IT. 
          I ACTUALLY LIKE IT. 
          THE COST OF EACH CITY, BECAUSE 
          [00:55:01]
EACH CITY'S COSTS ARE GONNA BE DIFFERENT. 
          I THINK THIS IS A BETTER APPROACH. 
          I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT J D'S REP MENTIONED STOP . 
          WELL, AND AND ALSO THIS IS THE MORE LEGAL APPROACH. 
          UM, YOU CAN USE, UM, COMPARISONS TO DETERMINE WHAT YOU SET YOUR FEES AT, BUT YOU CAN'T CHARGE MORE THAN WHAT YOUR COSTS ARE. 
          SO EVERYTHING HAS TO START WITH WHAT ARE YOUR COSTS AND THEN YOU CAN GO FROM THERE. 
          WELL, UH, I THINK A COST COMPARISON AMONG CITIES, A HEALTHY PROJECT, UH, A PREVIOUS RECENT WEST COVINA CITY COUNCIL, UH, ELIMINATED THE CODE ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT. 
          UH, I CALL 'EM THE TRASHCAN POLICE. 
          AND YOU KNOW, ALL THESE DEPARTMENTS HAVE PRIORITIES. 
          AND RIGHT NOW, IN, IN TO MY MIND, UH, POLICE AND FIRE ARE, ARE THE TOP OF THE LIST. 
          THE HIGH PRIORITIES, PUBLIC SAFETY, UH, DEPART, UH, DEPARTMENTS. 
          AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANNA LIVE IN A BEEHIVE. 
          WHEN I MOVED TO WEST CONVENIENT, IT WASN'T A BEEHIVE. 
          AND IT LOOKS LIKE, UH, THE DEVELOPMENT, UH, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT IS GONNA TURN US INTO A BEEHIVE. 
          AND, UH, I DIDN'T MOVE INTO ONE AND I KIND OF DON'T WANNA SEE IT HAPPEN, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S GONNA HAPPEN ANYWAY. 
          BUT I, I MENTIONED, I STARTED OUT WITH, WITH, WITH, UH, CODE ENFORCEMENT AND THE FACT THAT THE, UH, A RECENT PREVIOUS COUNSEL ELIMINATED THE WHOLE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, HAVING A TRASH CAN POLICE FORCE, UH, ISN'T AS IMPORTANT AS THE OTHER DEPARTMENTS. 
          AND THERE SHOULD BE A COMPARISON AMONG CITIES, UH, TO SEE HOW MUCH OTHER, I I ASSUME THAT OTHER COUNCIL ELIMINATED CODE ENFORCEMENT BECAUSE IT, IT COST, IT COST MORE THAN THE REVENUE THAT IT PRODUCED. 
          AND THEN A, A RECENT COUNCIL REINSTATED THAT AND MAYBE THE REINSTATEMENTS A A COST COMPARISON, UH, COULD, UH, HIGHLIGHT THAT SUBJECT AND, AND SEE IF IT'S WORTH IT OR NOT. 
          UH, AND THAT'S WHY I THINK, UH, A COST COMPARISON, ESPECIALLY AMONG, UH, THE CODE ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT MIGHT BE A, A, A USEFUL EXERCISE AND A, A COST COMPARISON IS EVEN A HARDER THING TO DO. 
          UM, YEARS AGO, RICK AND I DID A, A BENCHMARKING STUDY WITH SOME CITIES IN SOUTH CAROLINA WHERE THEY WEREN'T BENCHMARKING THEIR, THEIR, UM, SOLID WASTE SERVICES. 
          AND IT WAS A HUGE UNDERTAKING. 
          JUST SOMETHING SIMPLE LIKE SOLID WASTE, PICKING UP TRASH THAT SHOULD BE THE SAME. 
          EVERY PLACE SHOULD GO. 
          AND IT, IT WAS GREAT THAT THEY WERE DOING IT AND IT WAS GREAT FOR THEM TO LOOK AT WHAT ARE BE KIND OF BEST PRACTICES. 
          BUT EVEN SOMETHING SIMPLE LIKE THAT WAS A BIG UNDERTAKING BY CITY STAFF IN THOSE CITIES BACK THEN. 
          YEAH. 
          WELL WE HAVE AN EVERGREEN CONTRACT. 
          WE CAN'T THAT ANYTHING ELSE. 
          YEAH. 
          UM, OKAY. 
          SO I DO, I DO APPRECIATE YOU KIND OF BRINGING ME UP TO DATE, AT LEAST TO GIVE ME UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE, UH, MEETING TONIGHT IS ABOUT. 
          'CAUSE I I WAS IN THE DARK THERE. 
          UM, BUT IN TERMS OF COST, UM, YOU, YOU, YOU MENTIONED THE COST VERY IMPORTANT FACTOR. 
          THAT'S THE COST OF THE PROCESSING OF THE REQUESTS MADE BY THE DEVELOPER OR THE RESIDENT. 
          CORRECT. 
          AND WE RECENTLY HERE HAD A CONTRACT FOR SERVICE FROM THE, UH, FIRE DEPARTMENT WHERE THE CONTRACT COULDN'T BE FULFILLED BY THE ONE OF THE CONTRACTED PARTIES. 
          SO IT WOULD, WHEN THEY WERE TOO BUSY, IT WOULD BE PASSED ON TO A SECOND. 
          AND IT SEEMED, IF MY RECOLLECTION, UH, SERVES ME, THE FEES FLUCTUATED IN THAT SITUATION. 
          SO THE COST OBVIOUSLY CHANGED BECAUSE FACTOR THERE CHANGE BECAUSE OF GOING FROM ONE CONTRACTOR TO ANOTHER SUBCONTRACTOR. 
          IF, IF THAT IS POSSIBLE, THEN THESE FEES ARE KIND OF FLUID. 
          IT COULD TO, TO ACCOMMODATE THE COST COULD BE THERE. 
          IT DEPENDS HOW THE FEE IS WORDED. 
          IF IT'S A FLAT FEE, YOU'RE STUCK WITH IT. 
          THAT'S IF, IF THE FEE IS $500 PER APPLICATION, THAT'S WHAT THE FEE IS. 
          BUT MANY FEES, ESPECIALLY IN THE DEVELOPMENT AREA ARE DEPOSIT BASED FEES WHERE YOU, THE DEVELOPER, THE APPLICANT PUTS DOWN A DEPOSIT AND ACTUAL COST ARE CHARGED AGAINST THAT. 
          SO IF IT'S 
          [01:00:01]
THAT KIND OF FEE AND THE COST CHANGE, THEN WHAT GETS PASSED THROUGH THE APPLICANT CHANGES ALSO. 
          ANYTHING ELSE? CAN YOU PULL UP THE POWERPOINT AS WE LEAVE HERE TODAY? I WANT TO AGAIN WALK THROUGH, WHAT DID I DO WITH THAT? OH, THERE, IT'S WALK THROUGH, UM, HOW TO READ THE REPORT. 
          AND SO AGAIN, I WOULD FOCUS ON CHAPTER THREE, THOSE SUMMARY SCHEDULES. 
          NOTICE THAT COLUMN FIVE, TOTAL PROFIT SUBSIDY, IF IT'S A NEGATIVE NUMBER, IT'S CURRENTLY BEING SUBSIDIZED. 
          IF IT'S A POSITIVE NUMBER, IT'S CURRENTLY HAS A PROFIT AND THE FEES NEED TO GO DOWN. 
          AND SO SAME WAY WITH THE POSSIBLE NEW REVENUE, IF IT'S A POSITIVE NUMBER, THAT'S MEANS THAT'S WHAT WE THINK IS NEW REVENUE. 
          THAT'S BECAUSE OF A FEE INCREASE. 
          IF IT'S A NEGATIVE NUMBER, THAT MEANS BECAUSE YOU'RE OVER RECOVERING AND WE'RE RECOMMENDING A FEE DECREASE. 
          SO KINDA LOOK AT THOSE TWO COLUMNS, BUT ESPECIALLY THE POSSIBLE NEW REVENUE, BIG NUMBERS THERE, UP OR DOWN ARE MIGHT, MAYBE THINGS YOU MIGHT WANNA LOOK AT A LITTLE BIT MORE. 
          AND AS YOU LOOK AT A LITTLE BIT MORE, YOU FOLLOW THE S NUMBERS FROM CHAPTER THREE IN THE TEXT TO APPENDIX A FIND THAT SS NUMBER THAT YOU HAD A QUESTION ABOUT. 
          WHAT IS THE FEE GOING TO, WHAT IS THE FEE NOW? WHAT IS IT GOING TO, IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT WHY IS IT GOING TO THAT, THAT'S WHERE YOU GO TO APPENDIX B, FIND THAT SAME SS NUMBER. 
          AND THEN THERE YOU'LL SEE THE COST DETAIL AND WHO'S INVOLVED AND WHY THAT COST IS WHAT IT IS. 
          SO THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO READ THE REPORT. 
          AND AGAIN, APPENDIX C AT THE VERY BACK HAS A BREAKDOWN OF THE DIRECT COST OF THE VARIOUS DIFFERENT RECREATION PROGRAMS AND SHOWS THE CURRENT SUB, UM, COST RECOVERY FROM THOSE DIRECT COSTS. 
          NOW , THIS IS DIFFERENT. 
          THIS IS ONE WE'RE KIND OF LOOKING AT A DIFFERENT, WE'RE PULLING IT BACK AND WE'RE NOT, I'M NOT PUTTING THIS SUBSIDY NUMBER UP THERE. 
          I'M JUST SAYING WHAT'S THE COST RECOVERY? YOU CAN, YOU CAN DO THE MATH AND TOTAL THE TOTAL COST MINUS THE TOTAL REVENUES IS THE SUBSIDY. 
          BUT WE DON'T HAVE IT ON HERE. 
          GOOD. 
          AND AND SO THIS IS WHERE THINGS ARE CURRENTLY AT THE COST RECOVERY FOR THE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS AS THEY CURRENTLY ARE. 
          THE OVERHEAD COSTS ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THAT CALCULATION. 
          THEY'RE DOWN AT THE BOTTOM THERE AS WELL AS THE MAINTENANCE COST. 
          THEY STILL EXIST, WE STILL CALCULATED THEM. 
          BUT WITH THE EXERCISE, WITH RECREATION, TRYING TO THINK ABOUT WHAT'S THE COST RECOVERY FOR DIRECT COST AND WHAT IS THE WHAT, WHAT DO WE FEEL AS A COMMUNITY SHOULD BE THE DIRECT COST RECOVERY FOR THESE VARIOUS D PROGRAMS. 'CAUSE IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR MOST OF THESE, IF NOT ALL OF THESE, TO BE 100% COST RECOVERY. 
          JUST BECAUSE THEY GOTTA WORK WITHIN THE MARKET AND THERE'S GONNA BE CERTAIN THINGS LIKE YOUTH PROGRAMS THAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS TO SUBSIDIZE. 
          SO THAT'S WHAT I WOULD THAT'S YOUR HOMEWORK  SUMMARY. 
          . 
          THE, THE SUMMARY OF IN IN THE TEXT? YEAH, IN THE TEXT THERE'S A SUMMARY, UM, AND THERE'S A SUMMARY KIND OF BROKEN OUT BY DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, PUBLIC SAFETY, RECREATION AND ADMIN. 
          AND THE BOTTOM LINE IS YOUR MINUS JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. 
          UM, AND THAT'S WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT THAT $13 MILLION MINUS NUMBER. 
          THAT'S THE AMOUNT CURRENTLY BEING SUBSIDIZED. 
          BUT IF EVERY RECOMMENDATION THIS REPORT IS FOLLOWED, WE THINK THAT THE CITY CAN GET $1.4 MILLION A YEAR, NOT 13000001.4. 
          'CAUSE THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS IN THERE THAT ARE GONNA BE SUBSIDIZED E M S PROGRAMS, FALSE ALARM PROGRAMS, RECREATION PROGRAMS THAT CODE ENFORCEMENT PROGRAMS, THOSE THINGS THAT ARE LISTED AS ONE OF THOSE SERVICES IN HERE. 
          BUT WE'RE NOT RECOMMENDING MUCH COST RE REVENUE RECOVERY, COST RECOVERY 'CAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE PROGRAM SLIDE. 
          WHERE'S THE RECREATION IN THAT? IN THE COMMUNITY SERVICES. 
          THE THIRD LINE DOWN. 
          THIRD LINE DOWN. 
          YEAH. 
          THERE YOU OVERCHARGE THE FEES FINE. 
          IT'S, YEAH, THERE'S, THERE'S A NUMBER OF 'EM IN THERE, BUT THERE'S NOT, NOT A LOT OF BIG DOLLAR DECREASES. 
          ALL RIGHT. 
          GOOD. 
          WELL THANK YOU. 
          THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 
          ALRIGHT, WELL THANK YOU GUYS. 
          APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TIME TO COME OUT TODAY AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEDNESDAY. 
          NEXT WEDNESDAY. 
          YES.
* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.