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I'D[CALL TO ORDER]
LIKE TO CALL THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR JUNE 14TH, 2022 TO ORDER.UM, LET'S PLEASE RISE RIGHT NOW.
WE'LL UH, TAKE A MOMENT FOR SILENT PRAYER MEDITATION FOLLOWED BY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, WHICH WILL BE LED BY COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS. THANK YOU, MR. WILLIAMS, I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ONE PAULINA ROLL CALL PLEASE.
GOOD EVENING, FELLOW COMMISSIONERS.
UM, COMMISSIONER HING, UH, COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS HAS IT.
I'M A SHERPA SIERRA VICE-CHAIR GUTIERREZ, SIERRA LEWIS.
[APPROVAL OF MINUTES - Regular meeting, May 10, 2022]
RIGHT.TONIGHT WE HAVE MEETINGS FROM THE REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION.
UH, THAT WAS, THAT WAS, UH, DONE ON MAY 10TH, 2022.
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY CHANGES TO THE MINUTES? ANYONE? ANYONE GOING ONCE GOING TWICE? ALL RIGHT.
IF NO CHANGES, UH, THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED AS SUBMITTED.
UM, DO WE HAVE ANY ORAL COMMUNICATIONS FOR TONIGHT? ANYONE.
[CONSENT CALENDAR]
THERE'S ONE ITEM ON THE CONSENT CALENDAR.DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS WITH REGARD TO THAT MATTER? SEEING NO DISCUSSION? DO WE HAVE A MOTION? I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
WHAT, WHAT'S YOUR MOTION? WHAT WAS WRONG? THE CONSENT CALENDAR, RIGHT? SHE TO APPROVE I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CONSENT CALENDAR.
YES, I WILL GO AHEAD AND SECOND IT PULLING A ROLL CALL.
SECONDED BY, UH, COMMISSIONER LEWIS, UH, COMMISSIONER HING AND MICHELLE WILLIAMS. I COMMISSIONER MIRCERA VICE CHAIR, GUTIERREZ AND CHAIR LEWIS MOTION PASSES FIVE, EIGHT.
SO THERE ARE NO PUBLIC HEARINGS ON THE AGENDA, SO WE WILL MOVE TO NON HEARING ITEMS. UM, UNDER NON HEARING ITEMS, WE HAVE A STUDY SESSION ON THE BROWN ACT.
HOWEVER, UH, BECAUSE THIS STUDY SESSION INVOLVES AN APPROXIMATELY ONE HOUR LONG PRESENTATION.
IT'S GOING TO BE MOVED TO THE END OF THE COMMISSION MEETING TONIGHT SO WE CAN WRAP UP OUR ROUTINE MATTERS.
UM, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO THAT? RENIN MOVING ON TO A COMMISSION, UH, REPORTS, COMMENTS, AND MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS. DOES ANYONE ON THE COMMISSION HAVE ANYTHING TO REPORT OR COMMENT ON? SEE NONE.
[3. COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S REPORT]
DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR'S REPORT.DO YOU HAVE ANY ITEMS TO REPORT TO THE COMMISSION? JUST A COUPLE ITEMS, UH, CHAIR LEWIS.
UM, WE, WE'RE GOING TO BE, UH, HOSTING A 4TH OF JULY PARADE OR HEROES PARADE AND STREET FAIR, JULY 4TH.
UM, ON GLENDORA AVENUE, THE PARADE WILL BE STARTING AT 10 ALL INFORMATION TO EITHER PARTICIPATE IN THE PARADE OR FOR INFORMATION ON THE STREET FAIRS AVAILABLE ON THE CITY'S WEBSITE.
UM, WE'RE ALSO GOING TO BE KICKING OFF THE SUMMER CONCERTS, UH, ON WEDNESDAY NIGHTS AT THE CIVIC CENTER, THE INFORMATION ON THE BANDS AND THE TIME, UM, IS ON OUR WEBSITE AS WELL.
UM, AND THAT'S IT FOR THIS EVENING ON ITEMS, ANY QUESTIONS ANYMORE? RIGHT.
[4. CITY COUNCIL ACTION]
CITY COUNCIL ACTIONS, PAULINA, ARE THERE ANY CITY COUNCIL ACTIONS YOU'D LIKE TO REPORT TO THE COMMISSION? YES, THERE'S A FEW.UM, AT THE LAST, UH, CITY COUNCIL MEETING ON MAY 17TH, UM, THE CITY COUNCIL APPROVED THE ORDINANCE FOR THE GROVE AT MERCY, SAID SPECIFIC PLAN AND, UM, AT THE UPCOMING, UH, CITY COUNCIL MEETING NEXT TUESDAY, JUNE 21ST, WE'LL BE TAKING THE UPDATED ORDINANCE FOR THE
ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT.
IF NOT, UM, SINCE THERE'S NO FURTHER ROUTINE BUSINESS, UM, I THINK THE QUESTION IS, DO WE WANT TO KEEP THIS, UM, DO WE WANT TO KEEP THIS OPEN, UM, FOR THE STUDY SESSION, UH, SO THAT THIS REMAINS TELEVISED, OR DO WE WANT TO STOP TELEVISING AND THEN
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GO THROUGH THE HOUR PRESENTATION, UM, OFFLINE, ANY PERSPECTIVE FROM THE COMMISSION CUSTOMARY? WELL, IT'S CERTAINLY COMMISSION'S DISCRETION.I THINK I HAD ORIGINALLY ADVISED TICKET, NOT TELEVISED IF ONLY BECAUSE IN THIS ONE PARTICULAR PRESENTATION SLASH TRAINING, YOU'RE TALKING TO YOUR ATTORNEY AND I JUST ALWAYS PREFER TO HAVE A MORE LIKE INTIMATE DISCUSSION THAT SAID I'M AWARE OF THE IRONY OF A PRESENTATION ON THE BROWN ACT AND IT NOT BEING TELEVISED.
SO WHATEVER THE COMMISSION IS COMFORTABLE WITH, THERE'S NOTHING THAT REQUIRES IT'D BE TELEVISED, UM, WHATEVER YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH.
SO WE HAVE A CHOICE BETWEEN HAVING A TELEVISE OR NOT.
I THINK WE SHOULD BE TELEVISING IT.
I MEAN, IT IS AROUND ACT ANY OBJECTION TO KEEPING IT, KEEPING IT TELEVISED GUYS.
[2. Study Session - An oral presentation regarding the Brown Act.]
WELL, WE'RE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE, UH, PRESENTATION ON, UH, THE BROWN ACT ITEM NUMBER TWO.UM, I DON'T KNOW, PAULINA, WHO'S GOING TO DO THE PRESENTATION.
UH, TERRY LEWIS, OUR, UH, CITY ATTORNEY, UM, BARON BRIGHTON HOUSE.
WE'LL BE PROVIDING THE PRESENTATION.
SO, UM, JUST TO REPEAT WHAT I SAID, BARON BENTON HOUSING ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
UH, I HAVE BEEN HERE ALREADY AND GIVEN THIS PRESENTATION TO THE DEPARTMENT HEADS, AS WELL AS, UH, ONE OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONS.
AND I WAS ASKED TO AS WELL, JUST COME TALK TO YOU.
UM, SO JUST TO KIND OF GIVE A EXPLANATION OR MAYBE A REFRESHER OF THE BROWN ACT, REALLY, UH, AS YOU MAY BE AWARE, THE BROWN ACT KIND OF GOVERNS BOTTOM LINE.
AND THE RELEVANT STATUTES ARE IN GOVERNMENT CODE, UH, 5, 4, 9 50 THROUGH 5, 4, 9 63.
YOU LOOK AT THEM, THEY'RE PRETTY EXTENSIVE, COMPLICATED, LEGAL, EASE.
WE ATTORNEYS LIKE TO MAKE THINGS REALLY COMPLICATED.
I'M GOING TO TRY AND PUT IT IN VERY EASY TO UNDERSTAND LANGUAGE.
UH, THE BASIC REQUIREMENT OF THE BROWN ACT REQUIRES PUBLIC AGENCY ACTIONS BE TAKEN OPENLY AND DELIBERATIONS BE CONDUCTED OPENLY.
SO BASICALLY IF YOU WANT, YOU DON'T WANT TO BE HIDING THINGS, RIGHT? AND YOU DON'T WANT TO GIVE THE APPEARANCE OF HIDING THINGS.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN THE GOVERNMENT'S TAKING ACTIONS, THE PUBLIC IS AWARE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING.
SECOND ELEMENT, THEIR FUNDAMENTAL ASPECT, ALL MEETINGS OF A LEGISLATIVE BODY MUST BE OPEN AND PUBLIC AND ATTORNEYS BEING WHO WE ARE.
WHAT DOES A MEETING? WHAT IS THE LEGISLATIVE BODY? THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE ARE CLEAR IN HER.
SO TO TALK ABOUT LEGISLATIVE BODY, OBVIOUSLY WE KNOW CITY COUNCIL, AND I WOULD SAY A PLANNING COMMISSION.
MOST PEOPLE WOULD THINK, YES, OF COURSE.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATUTE, ANY COMMISSION COMMITTEE OR BOARD CREATED BY FORMAL ACTION OF THE GOVERNING GOVERNING BODY, UM, I'VE, I'VE SEEN CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE CITIES HAVE CREATED, OR THEY'VE CREATED SUBSIDIARY BODIES.
I'M SURE YOU'RE FAMILIAR, UM, FRIENDS OF THE, UM, OF THE WEST COVINA LIBRARY, OR I DUNNO IF YOU HAVE THAT ORGANIZATION, BUT ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THAT, IF THEY'RE CREATED BY FORMAL ACTION OF A CITY THEY'RE BROWN ACT BODY.
SO IN SOME CASES YOU CAN HAVE SOME PRETTY OBSCURE, UH, COMMISSIONS OR COMMITTEES, WHICH ARE GOING TO BE SUBJECT TO THESE REQUIREMENTS AND FEEL FREE BY THE WAY, IF, IF ANY QUESTIONS COME UP DURING THIS, BY ALL MEANS, FEEL FREE TO INTERRUPT OR STOP ME AND ASK BECAUSE THAT'S THE POINT OF WHY WE'RE HERE.
UM, I MENTIONED THE PRIVATE CORPORATION.
I HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN A CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE A CITY CREATED A CORPORATION AND, UH, THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION OVER WHETHER IT WAS A BROWN ACT BODY, BUT AGAIN, FORMAL ACTION.
IF THERE'S A RESOLUTION OR A VOTE, UH, YOU GUYS CITY COUNCIL, IT'S A BROWN ACT BODY.
SO WHAT DOES A MEETING? AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THE LEGAL LANGUAGE CONGREGATION OF A MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS OF A LEGISLATIVE BODY IN THE SAME TIME AND PLACE TO HEAR, DISCUSS OR DELIBERATE UPON ANY
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ITEM WITHIN THEIR JURISDICTION.THAT'S A LOCK TO IMPACT IN THERE.
SO, UH, JUST TO KIND OF PUT THIS IN LAY TERMS, IF THERE'S A MAJORITY OF YOU IN THE SAME PLACE IN TIME, AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S BASICALLY COULD POSSIBLY BE UNDER PLANNING COMMISSION PURVIEW, THAT'S A MEETING, RIGHT? AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS TO COMPLY WITH THE BROWN ACT.
NOW, IF YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, A MUTUAL FRIEND, THAT'S NOT PUBLIC BUSINESS AS YOUR ATTORNEY, I ADVISE YOU TO ALWAYS EXERCISE CAUTION.
IF THERE'S MORE THREE OR MORE OF YOU IN ONE PLACE, LET'S BE VERY CAREFUL.
AND THIS IS, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T IN THE PRESENTATION, BUT I DO WANT TO TOUCH UPON PERCEPTION AS WELL AS THE LEGAL REALITY.
SO LEGAL REALITY IS IF YOU'RE SITTING HERE AND WE'RE IN A MEETING AND YOU'RE TALKING AMONGST YOURSELF HERE, PUBLIC MAIMING, CAN'T HEAR YOU, BUT THEY SEE YOU TALKING.
UM, IT COULD BE COMPLETELY INNOCUOUS, BUT THERE COULD BE A PUBLIC PERCEPTION OF A BROWN ACT.
AND I HAVE SEEN MANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THE PUBLIC IS GOING TO MAKE THOSE ACCUSATIONS, UM, MAKING ASSUMPTIONS.
AND YOU MAY BE DOING THE OKAY.
UM, THE LEGAL THING, BUT I JUST WANT YOU TO BE AWARE OF THE RISK OF FACING THOSE KINDS OF ACCUSATIONS AND IN ANY GIVEN SITUATION, THINGS IN PARTICULAR TO WHAT TO WATCH OUT FOR, YOU KNOW, INFORMAL DISCUSSIONS.
I THINK I JUST TALKED TO YOU ABOUT, UH, TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS OR PURPOSE OF DISCUSSING DECISIONS AND ADVANCE SERIAL MEETINGS.
AND I'LL UNPACK THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE IN A MINUTE AND EMAILS, TEXTS, BLOGS, SOCIAL NETWORKING SITES.
SO THESE LAST TWO ITEMS, CRL MEETINGS, TEXTING BLOGGING, THEY'RE KIND OF A SIMILAR ISSUE.
UM, WHAT WE CALL A SERIAL MEETING GOES BACK TO THE, UH, THE TOP DEFINITION OF A MEETING.
WHEN I, WHEN I SAID, IT'S, WHEN YOU'RE A MAJORITY OF YOU ARE ALL IN THE SAME PLACE AT THE SAME TIME I'M TALKING, BUT THAT'S NOT THAT'S, THAT IS A MEETING, BUT THAT'S NOT THE ONLY THING THAT CAN BE A MEETING.
UM, AND I THINK BLOGS AND, UH, TEXTING ARE TWO OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES THAT BODIES LIKE YOURS FACE.
SO TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, UH, WHEN I FIRST STARTED THIS WORK, I WAS ASKED TO ANALYZE, UH, A COUNCIL MEMBER, WENT ON TO A LOCAL COMMUNITY BLOG AND MADE A POST ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WAS OF INTEREST TO THE COMMUNITY.
AND SURE ENOUGH, THERE WAS AN ACCUSATION THAT THEY JUST VIOLATED THE BROWN ACT.
SO, YOU KNOW, I, AS THE ATTORNEY THEN HAD TO GO THROUGH, OKAY.
AND I HAD TO GO AND SCAN THROUGH EVERY SINGLE BLOCK, PLUS DID ANY OTHER COUNCIL MEMBER COME AND MAKE A POST ABOUT THAT? YOU KNOW? AND IF THEY HAD, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BROWN ACT VIOLATION.
SO IT IS I THINK, UNAVOIDABLE AND IN A PARTICULAR, UH, POTENTIAL PITFALL FOR YOUR POSITIONS, BECAUSE YOU ARE ONE OF THE MOST OUTWARD FACING POSITIONS IN THE, IN THE CITY, YOU HAVE A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY AND OF COURSE YOU WANT TO ENGAGE WITH THE PUBLIC.
BUT JUST KNOW THAT THERE'S A POTENTIAL RISK THERE THAT IF YOU'RE GOING ON TO A PUBLIC BLOGS AND POSTING A LOT ABOUT ITEMS OR ACTIONS, WHICH COULD COME UNDER THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UM, IF ANOTHER PLANNING COMMISSION THERE HAS BEEN THERE BEFORE YOU, THAT THERE'S A POTENTIAL RISK THERE.
SO JUST ALWAYS BE AWARE OF THAT WHEN YOU'RE ON SOCIAL MEDIA OR YOU'RE PUBLICLY POSTING.
I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO SAY DON'T, DON'T DO THAT BECAUSE YOU HAVE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND, AND AGAIN, IN, UM, CORDONS WITH YOUR POSITION, I THINK PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT IS VITAL.
JUST, JUST BE AWARE AS ALL I'M ASKING.
SO WHAT IS A MEETING? WHAT A BEATING IS NOT INDIVIDUAL CONTACTS OR CONVERSATIONS.
I USE THE, UH, THE SOCIAL INFORMAL SOCIAL EXAMPLE, RIGHT? YOU'RE ASKING MAYBE YOU HAVE A MUTUAL FRIEND OR SOMETHING ONE OR TWO OF YOU TALKING TOGETHER.
IF IT'S NOT RELATED TO CITY BUSINESS, UM, ATTENDANCE BY A MAJORITY AT CERTAIN CONFERENCES OR SOCIAL EVENTS LONG AS THE MAJORITY DOES NOT DISCUSS ISSUES WITHIN THEIR JURISDICTION.
I THINK A VERY, UM, PROMINENT EXAMPLE OR SOMETHING THAT I SEE FREQUENTLY, IF A PROMINENT MEMBER MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY PASSES AWAY, THERE'S A FUNERAL YOU WANT TO GO RECOGNIZE THERE'LL BE A MAJORITY OF, UM, OFFICIALS THERE, AS LONG AS YOU'RE NOT DISCUSSING BUSINESS.
IF THERE'S A MAJORITY OF THEIR, I WOULD ADVISE YOU AGAIN, AS THE ATTORNEY, JUST BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT THE PUBLIC.
SEEING, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE TALKING QUIETLY AND NOISE, WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, JUST BE AWARE OF A PUBLIC PERCEPTION, EVEN IF YOU'RE BEING COMPLETELY ABOVE THE LINE.
UM, SECOND ITEM THERE, ATTENDANCE AT A MEETING OF OTHER LEGISLATIVE BODIES.
NOW THERE'S BEEN MANY, MANY TIMES IN MY CAREER.
I'VE SEEN REPLANTED COMMISSIONS HAVE BEEN VERY INTERESTED IN AN ITEM THAT YOU'VE PASSED
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ONTO THE COUNCIL.AND SEVERAL OF YOU WANT TO GO TO THE COUNCIL AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS OR GIVE YOUR INPUT.
THIS IS ANOTHER KIND OF A BIG DANGER ZONE.
AND I'VE, I'VE SEEN A PITFALL ON THIS ONE AS WELL.
IT IS SO EASY TO HIT REPLY ALL ON AN EMAIL.
YOU HAVE A STAFF MEMBER WHO WILL, UM, SEND OUT SOMETHING AS, AS THEY FREQUENTLY DO.
THEY WANT TO KEEP YOU UPDATED, RIGHT? AND YOU HAVE A THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, OR MAYBE A QUICK QUESTION, AND WITHOUT THINKING YOU HIT REPLY ALL, AND THAT NOW GETS DISTRIBUTED OUT TO THE OTHER PLANNING COMMISSIONERS.
SO THIS IS JUST A CAUTION TO ALWAYS BE AWARE OF THAT.
UM, WHAT I ALWAYS ADVISE IS FOR STAFF TO BLIND COPY.
SO THAT, THAT IS NOT REALLY AN OPTION FOR YOU GUYS, BUT IT OCCASIONALLY DOES HAPPEN WHERE YOU'LL ALL BE COPIED AND SEE THAT.
SO THE, THE EMAIL FROM STAFF TO YOU IS NOT A PROBLEM.
IT'S THAT ACCIDENTAL HIT REPLY ALL.
AND IF THAT EVER DOES HAPPEN TO YOU, WHAT I ADVISE IS JUST IMMEDIATELY DISENGAGED FROM THAT CONVERSATION.
I ALSO WANT TO ADD POINT OUT TO YOU THAT, UM, POTENTIAL PUBLIC RECORDS ACT PROBLEM.
SO USING YOUR OWN EMAIL OR YOUR OWN DEVICE, YOUR PHONE, UH, MEANS THAT THAT DEVICE OR THAT PERSONAL EMAIL, YOUR PERSONAL LAPTOP IS NOW SUBJECT TO PUBLIC RECORDS ACT.
WHAT THAT MEANS IS IF SOMEONE'S GONNA ASK FOR RECORDS FROM THE CITY ABOUT A TOPIC THAT MAYBE CAME BEFORE THE COMMISSION, AND YOU'VE BEEN USING YOUR, UM, PERSONAL CELL PHONE, THEN, UH, THE CLERK IS GOING TO CONTACT YOU AND ASK YOU TO DO A SEARCH OF YOUR DEVICE, AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PRODUCE THOSE RECORDS.
SO MY RECOMMENDATION IS ALWAYS TO USE A CITY EMAIL ADDRESS, AND I DO UNDERSTAND THAT'S BEING ESTABLISHED FOR YOU GUYS.
I'VE TALKED TO THE CITY CLERK LAST TIME ABOUT THAT.
SO, UH, TEXTING SIMILAR ISSUE WITH EMAIL, AS I MENTIONED, UM, ANOTHER ISSUE I WANT TO POINT OUT WITH TEXTING AND I'VE NOTICED, UM, JUST TO ALWAYS BE CAUTIOUS DOING IT FROM THE DIOCESE.
UH, I'VE I'VE JUST SEEN ALMONDS FROM THE PUBLIC OR ACCUSATIONS LIKE, OH, THEY'RE GETTING DIRECTION FROM SUCH AND SUCH PROMINENT BUSINESS PERSON, TRUE OR NOT.
IT'S JUST A VERY COMMON THING, AGAIN, NOT A LEGAL PROBLEM, BUT JUST A PUBLIC RECEPTION LINE.
SO RECOMMENDATION IS TO AVOID SENDING OR RECEIVING TEXTS OR EMAILS DURING A MEETING.
UM, IN PARTICULAR, IF YOU'VE DECLARED A CONFLICT OF INTEREST, YOU DON'T WANT TO BE PERCEIVED LIKE YOU'RE TEXTING THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS, UH, BLOGGING.
I THINK I ALREADY COVERED SHORT FOR BLOG, BASICALLY A VERY PUBLIC OUTWARD FACING THING, VERY COMMON WITH PUBLIC OFFICIALS, JUST BE AWARE OF THE, OF THE ISSUES THERE.
HASN'T BEEN A FORMALLY ADDRESSED BY THE FPPC THAT'S THE GOVERNING BODY FOR A LOT OF THESE ISSUES.
BUT, UM, IT IS, IT IS A VERY COMMON TOPIC OR A VERY COMMON ACCUSATION TO COME UP, UH, IN REGARD TO PUBLIC POSTING.
SO, UH, WHAT ELSE ARE THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE BROWN ACT? SO AS YOU MAY BE AWARE, YOU'RE BASICALLY NOT ALLOWED TO, UH, DISCUSS OR TAKE ACTION ON AN ITEM UNLESS IT'S BEEN PROPERLY AGENDIZED OKAY.
SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? UH, THE CITY CLERK HANDLES MOST OF THIS, BUT, UH, FOR YOUR REGULAR MEETINGS, YOU AGENDA HAS TO BE AGENDIZED 72 HOURS BEFORE THE MEETING NO LESS OR SPECIAL MEETINGS.
NOW THAT USED TO ALWAYS CONFUSE ME.
CAUSE YOU WOULD THINK WITH A SPECIAL, YOU, THEY, YOU WANT TO GIVE MORE NOTICE, NOT LESS, BUT, UH, IT DOES KIND OF MAKE SENSE BECAUSE PEOPLE EXPECT YOUR REGULAR MEETINGS.
SO THEY KNOW THAT, UM, ALL DOCUMENTS THAT YOU GUYS GET ALSO HAVE TO BE PROVIDED TO THE PUBLIC.
AGAIN, IT COMES BACK TO THE VERY FIRST ITEM.
I SAID, IT'S ALL HAS TO BE DONE OPENLY TRANSPARENTLY.
IT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THE BROWN ACT.
UM, THIS DOESN'T COVER YOU GUYS SO MUCH, BUT, UM, CITY COUNCILS CANNOT, UM, GIVE RAISES TO CERTAIN EXECUTIVES AT SPECIAL MEETINGS.
IT CAN ONLY BE DONE AT REGULAR MEETINGS AND IT HAS TO BE DONE IN OPEN SESSION, NOT REALLY AN ISSUE OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT THERE ARE, UH, LET'S SAY PREVIOUS BAD ACTORS AND OTHER CITIES THAT HAVE CAUSED THESE VERY SPECIFIC RULES TO COME FORWARD.
UM, THE AGENDA MUST ALSO SPECIFY THE TIME, THE LOCATION AND INCLUDE A BRIEF GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF EACH ITEM.
UH, THIS LAST ONE, AS WELL AS SOMETHING THAT I'VE, UH, YOU KNOW, COMES UP EVERY ONCE IN AWHILE.
OH, WELL THAT WASN'T, UH, YOU GUYS TOOK AN ACTION ON SOMETHING AND YOUR DESCRIPTION WASN'T SUFFICIENT, OR IT WAS CONFUSING.
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RULE HERE IS, UM, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE, NO, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LONGER THAN 20 WORDS.AS LONG AS THE AVERAGE PERSON CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT IN GENERAL, THAT THAT'S EFFICIENT.
RIGHT? WE'D GET, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PUBLIC HAS ENOUGH NOTICE OR UNDERSTANDING OF THAT.
THEY CAN COME AND TALK ABOUT IT.
WE'RE NOT HERE TO TRY AND CONFUSE.
WE'RE NOT TRYING TO OFF ESCAPE, MAKE THINGS UNCLEAR, UM, OR HIDE ANYTHING.
SO AS I SAID, YOU CANNOT TAKE AN ACTION OR VOTE ON SOMETHING.
IF IT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA, THERE ARE SOME LIMITED EXCEPTIONS TO THAT.
NOW MOST OF THESE WON'T APPLY TO THE PLANET COMMISSION.
IT'S MORE OF A COUNCIL THING, BUT JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE OF THEM, STATUTORILY DEFINED EMERGENCIES, UH, THAT'S TYPICALLY LIKE LABOR SHORTAGES, A CRISIS IS IF THERE'S A WATER PIPE RAKE AND IT HAS TO BE ACTION IMMEDIATELY, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS CAN BE TAKEN UP ON THE AGENDA.
THE, UH, THE SECOND ITEM IS IF THERE'S AN, A NEED FOR AN IMMEDIATE ACTION, IT WILL REQUIRE A TWO THIRDS VOTE.
IF THERE'S FIVE OF YOU, THAT MEANS AT LEAST FOUR HAVE TO DO IT, AND YOU HAVE TO VOTE THAT THERE IS AN IMMEDIATE NEED FOR ACTION AND THAT THE NEED AROSE AFTER THE AGENDA WAS POSTED.
SO IT CAN'T JUST BE A SIMPLE MISTAKE.
IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S URGENT HAS TO BE HANDLED RIGHT AWAY.
UM, AND, UH, YEAH, BASICALLY AN EMERGENCY.
IN OTHER WORDS, FOR AN EMERGENCY, UM, OTHER ITEMS, UH, THIS COMES UP A LOT AT THE END OF THE MEETING.
THERE'S USUALLY A SECTION FOR COUNCIL MEMBER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS, BRIEF QUESTIONS, COMMENTS THAT'S OKAY.
IF IT ENDS UP BEING AN EXTENSIVE DISCUSSION OR SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES MORE EXTENSIVE THAN, THAN IT NEEDS TO BE, AGENDIZED FOR AN EXTENSIVE DISCUSSION.
BUT IF IT'S A SIMPLE QUESTION, HEY, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE 4TH OF JULY PARADE? THAT'S A QUICK ANSWER.
UM, BRIEF RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS, COMMENTS FROM PUBLIC.
NO, THERE'S A PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD.
YOU GUYS CAN CHOOSE TO RESPOND.
IF YOU WANT TO REEF REPORTS BY BOARD MEMBERS AND STAFF AND REQUEST TO AGENDA AS AN ITEM FOR FUTURE MEETINGS, CLOSE SESSION.
AND AGAIN, THIS IS NOT, UM, REALLY UTILIZED BY PLANNING COMMISSIONS VERY OFTEN MO MORE SO BY COUNCILS.
YOU DON'T OFTEN HAVE TO DISCUSS OR GET INVOLVED AT THE LABOR NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE UNIONS EMISSION.
ISN'T REALLY GOING TO BE INVOLVED IN, UM, LITIGATION TO THE EXTENT THE COUNCIL IS.
BUT THESE ARE THE, THE SPECIFICS PERSONNEL DISCUSSIONS, LABOR NEGOTIATIONS, UH, TALKING ABOUT LITIGATION WITH YOUR ATTORNEY, RIGHT? REAL PROPERTY NEGOTIATIONS.
IT WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE TO TRY AND BUY SOMETHING.
IF YOU'RE PUBLICLY TELLING EVERYBODY WHAT'S, YOU'RE WILLING TO BUY IT FOR, UM, TRADE SECRETS AND THERE'S OTHERS.
UM, IF THERE'S SECURITY ISSUES, UM, THOSE KINDS OF THINGS CAN GO INTO CLOSED SESSION.
THERE'S RECENTLY BEEN A BIG SLATE OF, UH, HACKING ISSUES WITH CITIES.
SO THOSE KINDS OF ISSUES GO INTO CLOSED SESSION I'VE SEEN.
AND I THINK THIS IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE DISCLOSURE DISCLOSURE BY A PUBLIC OFFICIAL OF INFORMATION THAT IS DISCUSSED IN CLOSED SESSION IS TECHNICALLY ILLEGAL A MISDEMEANOR.
WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF BROWN ACT VIOLATIONS, UM, POTENTIAL NULLIFICATION OF THE DECISION POTENTIAL CRIMINAL SANCTIONS.
UM, AS I SAID, A MISDEMEANOR, WHICH IS UP TO SIX MONTHS IN JAIL, A THOUSAND DOLLAR FINE, INTENSE ADVERSE MEDIA ATTENTION.
SO, UM, AND WE'RE GETTING TO THE CLOSE OF THIS.
SO I GAVE YOU KIND OF THE BASIC BARE BONES OF WHAT THE BROWN ACT IS.
HONESTLY, IT'S SOMETHING THAT COULD PROBABLY TAKE AN ALL DAY CLASS IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO THE WEEDS, BUT NOBODY, BUT ATTORNEYS WOULD REALLY BE THAT INTERESTED IN THAT.
UM, UH, A BILL PASSED, UH, JUST THIS PREVIOUS YEAR, AB 360 1.
AND, UH, IT BECAME AN ISSUE DURING THE PANDEMIC THAT THERE'S A REQUIREMENT THAT YOU GUYS HAVE TO HAVE TO HAVE A QUORUM AND YOU HAVE TO BE PHYSICALLY PRESENT TO HAVE A MEETING.
PROBLEM IS WHEN THE PANDEMIC CAME AROUND, THERE WAS A GOVERNMENT ORDER.
SO HOW DO WE CONDUCT BUSINESS? SO UNFORTUNATELY THEY PASSED A BILL WHICH PROVIDED AN ALTERNATE AND AN EXCEPTION TO SOME OF THESE BROWN ACT REQUIREMENTS.
UM, SO UNDER THE BROWN ACT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A QUORUM, PHYSICALLY PRESENT, UH, MEMBERS CAN REMOTELY ATTEND TO THE BROWN ACT, BUT YOU HAVE TO POST THE ADDRESS OF WHERE THEY ARE REMOTELY.
SO IF YOU'RE ON VACATION IN A HOTEL ROOM, YOU HAVE TO PUT THE ADDRESS OF YOUR HOTEL ROOM IN THE AGENDA, AND YOU HAVE TO PUT YOUR AGENDA ON THE DOOR AND YOU HAVE TO LET MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC COME AND JOIN
[00:25:01]
YOU IN YOUR ROOM.IF THAT'S WHERE YOU ARE, THAT'S UNDER THE BROWN ACT.
AND I HAVE ACTUALLY HAD COUNCIL MEMBERS DO THAT, AND I HAVE HAD MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC JOIN A COUNCIL MEMBER IN THEIR LIVING ROOM JUST TO PROVE THEY COULD JUST TO PROVE THAT THEY WERE COMPLYING WITH THE BROWN ACT.
UM, SO AB 360 1 SUSPENDED THOSE TWO REQUIREMENTS THOUGH.
SO, UM, IF THERE IS A EMERGENCY STATE OF EMERGENCY SPECIFICALLY, WHICH REQUIRES, UM, A VOTE OF A COUNCIL OR OF STATE OFFICIALS, IF THERE IS A, UH, SOCIAL DISTANCING ORDER IN PLACE, THOSE TWO REQUIREMENTS, PHYSICAL QUORUM BEING PRESENT AND, UH, HOSTING THE AGENDA ARE WAIVED.
BUT AGAIN, THAT'S ONLY WHEN THERE'S A STATE EMERGENCY.
SO THAT COMPLETES MY PRESENTATION.
DO YOU GUYS HAVE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS OR, UM, INSTANCES OR THAT YOU WANT TO DISCUSS ANYONE WITH ANY QUESTIONS OKAY.
WITH THAT? THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.
UH, PERTAIN TO SOMETHING THAT YOU HAD, UH, EARLIER IN THE, UH, PRESENTATION, UH, SPECIFICALLY WITH REGARD TO POSTS ON VARIOUS SOCIAL MEDIA ENTITIES.
IS THERE ANY, UM, SO FOR EXAMPLE, UH, I THINK MANY CITIES HAVE SPECIFIC GROUPS, UM, WHERE PEOPLE POST ABOUT WHATEVER TOPIC IS IN VOGUE IN THE CITY AT THAT POINT IN TIME QUESTION IS, IS THE FIRST COUNCIL MEMBER OR ELECTED OFFICIAL OR, OR A MEMBER OF A BODY TO POST THE ONLY PERSON WHO CAN POST ON THAT.
LET'S JUST SAY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, TO ME, I THINK THAT'S A, IT'S AN INTERESTING LEGAL QUESTION BECAUSE ULTIMATELY IF THAT IS, AND THERE ARE SOME IN THIS COUNTRY WHO WOULD ARGUE THAT THAT IS THE NEW PUBLIC FORUM, UH, AND YOU ARE LIMITING THE PUBLIC FORUM TO ONLY ONE SPECIFIC OFFICIAL WHO HAPPENS TO GET TO THE, UH, PUBLIC FORUM FIRST.
AND EVERYONE ELSE IS JUST, YOU KNOW, SOL, UH, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WAY OF PUTTING IT.
UM, HA HAS THAT BEEN ADDRESSED IN, IN ANY, UH, FPPC OPINIONS OR IS THERE ANY CASE LAW ON THAT? UH, THERE'S NOT ANY SPECIFIC CASE LAW ON THAT QUESTION.
UH, IT'S SOMETHING THAT CITIES ARE KIND OF WRESTLING WITH AND A LOT ARE PUTTING POLICIES INTO PLACE SPECIFIC FOR SOCIAL MEDIA TO FIGURE OUT WHAT RULES SHOULD APPLY.
BUT AGAIN, IT'S SOMETHING THAT PUBLIC OFFICIALS NEED TO BE AWARE OF AND IT COMES BACK TO THAT TRANSPARENCY ISSUE AND IT GOES TO THE HEART OF CITY OFFICIALS NEED, I THINK, TO ENGAGE WITH THE PUBLIC.
SO, NO, THERE'S NO SPECIFIC RULING ON THAT.
AND THAT'S JUST WHY I ALWAYS, UM, OPTION TO JUST BE AWARE BEFORE YOU GO POSTING PUBLICLY ON THE INTERNET.
NOW, I, IT, IT'S HARD TO SAY, DO YOU GOING TO HAVE TO POST, ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE TO SCROLL THROUGH HUNDREDS OF COMMENTS ON THE, ON SOMETHING TO SEE IF ANOTHER PUBLIC OFFICIAL HAS POSTED? IF YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT JUST PLANNING COMMISSIONER, WE'RE ALSO RESIDENTS THAT POINT.
ARE WE ABLE TO MAYBE ASK QUESTIONS OR THINGS? YOU KNOW, I PERSONALLY DON'T BECAUSE I'VE SEEN SO MANY CITY OFFICIALS GET KILLED US, OR IT CAN BE A LITTLE CRUEL.
UM, BUT SO ARE WE ABLE TO INTERACT JUST AS RESIDENTS WITHOUT ANY DISCUSSION AND WHAT'S HERE FOR ASKING WHAT'S HAPPENING OR, OR ARE YOU ASKING IF YOU, AS A PLANNING COMMISSIONER CAN ALSO INTERACT AS A, AS A RESIDENT OR RESIDENTS IN GENERAL, CAN THEY INTERACT WITH THE RESIDENT? UM, SO YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BE AWARE OF YOUR ROLE AS A PLANNING COMMISSIONER.
SO ANYTHING THAT COULD POSSIBLY COME TO YOU AS A PLANNING COMMISSION, YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE OF.
THAT'S A, THAT'S A TOPIC THAT YOU SHOULDN'T BE DISCUSSING WITH OTHER PLANNING COMMISSIONERS.
YOU, YOU THOUGH, AS A RESIDENT CAN BE TALKING TO COUNCIL MEMBERS, UM, EVEN AS A PLANNING COMMISSIONER, YOU CAN BE TALKING TO INDIVIDUAL COUNCIL MEMBERS.
WHAT YOU CANNOT DO IS TALK TO THREE OR MORE AND YOU CAN'T TALK TO THREE OF YOU CANNOT BE DISCUSSING AND, AND YOU CAN'T, YOU KNOW, TALK TO COMMISSIONER HANG, AND THEN GO TO CHAIR LEWIS AND SAY, WELL, I, YOU KNOW, COMMISSIONER HANG SAID THIS BECAUSE THAT NOW IS A MEETING AND YOU'VE BECOME THE MESSENGER OF THE INTERMEDIARY THERE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ALSO THE CASE, UM, THAT THEY'LL GIVE AN EXAMPLE, UM, SOMEONE ON A COMMISSIONER BOARD CONTACTS, DIFFERENT MEMBERS ON THE BOARDS TO SEE HOW THEY
[00:30:01]
FEEL ABOUT SOMETHING YOU CAN TAKE IN A STRAW.THAT WOULD NOT BE PERMISSIBLE UNDER THE BROWN ACT, UNLESS IT'S DURING A MEETING IN A, DURING THE AGENDIZED THE DISCUSSION.
ANYTHING ELSE? ANYONE? I ACTUALLY HAVE A QUESTION REGARDING WHAT YOU JUST SAID EARLIER.
UM, IF ONE PERSON IS TALKING AND THEN I TURNED AROUND OR WHOEVER'S TURNED AROUND AND SAID SOMETHING TO THE OTHER PERSON, HOW DO, HOW DOES THE FIRST PERSON KNOW THAT? WHAT THE SECOND IT SAID TO THE THIRD PERSON? YEAH.
THAT'S, THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT.
COMMISSIONER HANG, YOU KNOW, THE RULE IS, UM, A MAJORITY BECOMES A MEETING, THREE OF YOU, BUT MY ADVICE IS DON'T EVEN TALK TO ONE BECAUSE IT, FOR EXACTLY THAT REASON IS YOU CAN'T CONTROL.
IF YOU TALK TO ONE COMMISSIONER, TECHNICALLY THAT'S NOT ABOUT ACT VIOLATION.
HOWEVER, YOU CANNOT GUARANTEE THAT THAT SECOND PERSON WON'T ACCIDENTALLY FORGET OR INTENTIONALLY TALK TO A THIRD COMMISSIONER.
AND NOW ALL OF YOU ARE, WOULD BE IN VIOLATION.
SAY THAT'S IN A FORMAL, YOU CAN SAY HI, BUT, UH, JUST, YOU KNOW, DON'T DISCUSS COMMISSIONED BUSINESS, RIGHT.
AND AGAIN, IF YOU EVER HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THIS OR CONCERNS, REACH OUT TO ME OR TO YOUR CITY ATTORNEY, TOM, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE THERE FOR.
SO ANY OTHER QUESTION? SO THIS IS AMONG THE PLANNING COMMISSION THAT WE'RE GIVING AN EXAMPLE, FOR EXAMPLE, AS A PLANNING COMMISSION, CAN WE TECHNICALLY TALK TO OTHER COMMISSIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE, UH, THE PARK COMMISSIONS? CAN WE, YES.
UH, YES, MY CAVEAT AND THE REASON I'M HESITATING IS, YOU KNOW, DOES THE PARK COMMISSION ITEMS EVER COME BEFORE YOU AS A PLANNING COMMISSION? SO IF THEY MAKE A DECISION ON SOMETHING AND, UH, IF IT THEORETICALLY COULD BE APPEALED OR IT EVER GETS SENT TO YOU, AND I WOULD JUST EXERCISE CAUTION, TALKING TO INDIVIDUAL, LET'S SAY, PARK COMMISSION MEMBERS IS NOT A BROWN ACT ISSUE, BUT YOU'VE GOT OTHER LEGAL ISSUES.
UM, YOU CANNOT DEMONSTRATE BIAS.
THESE ARE ALL SEPARATE, UH, POTENTIAL CONFLICT OF VENTURES ISSUES THAT WE DIDN'T COVER TODAY.
BUT YOU SHOULD BE AWARE OF JUST TALKING TO A PARKS.
COMMISSIONER IS NOT BIAS A PRE-DECISION.
UM, AND CERTAINLY YOU'RE ENTITLED TO DO YOUR OWN INVESTIGATION.
I IT'S COMMON FOR COMMISSIONERS TO GO TO A SITE.
THAT'S A COP COMING BEFORE YOU, YOU, YOU CAN GO TO THE SITE YOURSELF AND JUST SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE AND FEELS THERE.
YOU CAN, UH, SPEAK WITH INDIVIDUAL DEVELOPERS THAT ARE COMING BEFORE YOU, THOSE ARE NOT VIOLATIONS.
SO GOING BACK TO THE EXAMPLE OF THE PARK COMMISSIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THIS BODY HERE AS PLANNING, COMMISSIONS, HOW MANY PARK COMMISSIONS CAN WE TALK TO? CAN WE TALK TO ALL FIVE OR WE ARE LIMITED TO ONE OR NONE.
UM, YOU COULD TALK TO ALL FIVE.
NOW MY CAVEAT THERE IS WE DON'T WANT TO GIVE THEM A BROWN ACT VIOLATION.
SO IF THEY'RE DONE WITH WHATEVER THEY'RE DECIDING, YOU CAN TALK TO ALL FIVE, NOT AN ISSUE.
UM, YOU DON'T WANT TO BE, BUT TEQUILA, WE CAN EACH TALK TO EACH INDIVIDUAL OF THOSE COMMISSIONS.
ABOUT A TOPIC THAT THEY'RE DEALING WITH.
SO LET'S SAY COMMISSION ONE COMMISSION 2, 3, 5.
WE CAN ACTUALLY, EACH INDIVIDUAL, LIKE WE CAN TALK TO THE COMMISSION ONE, AND THEN THE NEXT DAY WE CAN GO AND TALK TO COMMISSION TO ABOUT THE SAME TOPIC AND THAT WON'T VIOLATE THE BROWN'S APP, SAME TOPIC.
SO AS LONG AS IF THE, YES, THAT WON'T VIOLATE THE BROWN ACT AND WHAT IF ALL OF THOSE FIVE PEOPLE CAN LIKE RANDOMLY TALK TO EACH OTHER? HOW DOES THAT NOT VIOLATING? WELL? SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHETHER YOU'RE POTENTIALLY VIOLATING THE PRODUCT.
SO LET'S SAY YOU TALKED TO THE PARKS COMMISSION, UM, AND I DUNNO, SUBJECT X.
AND THEN YOU TALK TO THE SENIOR CITIZEN COMMISSION.
UM, ALSO ABOUT THE SAME TOPIC.
THAT'S NOT A VIOLATION FOR YOU.
THE RISK FOR YOU IS IF COMMISSIONER BISSERA GOES TALKS TO THE SAME PEOPLE AND IN THAT CONVERSATION, THEY MENTIONED, OH YEAH, COMMISSIONER HANG WAS JUST TALKING TO US ABOUT THIS TOPIC.
NOW, IF THAT TOPIC IS SOMETHING THAT COULD POTENTIALLY COME BEFORE YOU AS A PLANNING COMMISSION, UM, THERE'S YOUR RISK.
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TO DO WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION, NOT AN ISSUE.NOW, WHETHER SENIOR COMMITTEE COMMISSION IS VIOLATING THE BROWN ACT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A WHOLE SEPARATE ANALYSIS.
AND HONESTLY IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A VERY FACT SPECIFIC, LOOK AT WHAT YOUR GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT WITHOUT EVEN PERTAIN TO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WITH, DO WE EVEN HAVE A REASON TO GO AND SPEAK WITH THEM? I MEAN, YOUR PUBLIC OFFICIALS.
SO I'M JUST ASKING, WELL, WHAT THE GENERAL PLAN OR THE UPDATE OF THE ZONING CODE OR SOMETHING THAT TO DO WITH THAT'S ANOTHER COMMITTEE THAT'S NOT PLANNING COMMISSION NOW.
RIGHT? BUT BECAUSE THE ITEM AT SOME FORM OR FASHION MIGHT COME TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT WOULDN'T THAT BE ON AN AGENDA? OH, GENERAL PLAN OR A HOUSING ELEMENT UPDATE WOULD BE NOW LIKE PARKS.
PARKS COMMISSION WOULD HAVE INVESTED INTEREST IN THE PARKS.
SO FOR YOU TALKING TO THE PARKS COMMISSION ABOUT SOME ASPECT OF A GENERAL PLAN, UPDATE THAT TOPICS ON PARKS, THAT'S NOT A BROWN ACT VIOLATION FOR YOU.
IF THEY'RE CONSIDERING IT, IF IT'S SOMEHOW BEFORE THEIR COMMISSION.
UM, AND IT'S STILL BEFORE THE COMMISSION AND YOU COMMUNICATE TO THEM ABOUT WHAT EACH OF THEM ARE SAYING TO EACH OTHER, THEN YOU'RE CREATING IT.
IF YOU WOULD BE THEN CREATING A PRODUCT, I GUESS YOU FOR THEM.
BUT IF THEY'RE PAST THAT AND IT'S COMING FOR YOU, YOU INDIVIDUALLY CAN TALK TO THEM.
I KNOW ACHY, IT CAN GET A LITTLE STICKY.
AND THIS IS A COMPLICATED, CAN BE A COMPLICATED TOPIC.
IT BOILS DOWN TO TRANSPARENCY AND, UM, TAKING ACTIONS PUBLICLY, BUT YOU GET INTO THE WEEDS AND, AND THAT'S WHY YOU NEED TO ASK ME FOR SOMETIMES AN ANALYSIS.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? JUST ONE MORE, SAY THAT, UM, ON A COMMISSION YOU DECIDE TO GO BUY A SITE AND YOU HAPPEN TO SEE THE APPLICANT.
UM, NORMALLY IF THAT DOES HAPPEN, YOU KNOW, YOU TALK TO THEM, BUT WHEN YOU COME TO THE MEETING, YOU MAYBE WOULD TALK TO THE ATTORNEY AND SAY, HEY, I WENT OUT TO THE SITE, I'VE MET THE APPLICANT.
DO I NEED TO DISCLOSE THAT? OR DO I NEED TO RECUSE MYSELF? NO.
DO YOU RECUSE YOURSELF? JUST CAUSE YOU TALK TO THE APPLICANT AT THEIR SITE, UM, NOR IS THERE A LEGAL NEED TO DISCLOSE NOW IT IS COMMON PRACTICE TO WHEN YOU'RE DISCUSSING AND SAY, OH YEAH, I WENT TO THE SITE AND I RAN INTO AND I WOULD PROBABLY ADVISE YOU TO DO SO AGAIN, A COME BLOWS DOWN TO BE TRANSPARENT WHEN YOU CAN.
SO ANYTHING ELSE, ANYONE? RIGHT.
AND WITH THAT, WE HAVE NO OTHER BUSINESS.
SO THE MEETING IS ADJOURNED TONIGHT, EVERYONE.